Night Vision Store

stevec

Well-Known Member
I have been reading Norbert Klups’ excellent book, ‘The Drilling’ and I noticed that several people on this forum use drillings and combination guns. Whilst the idea of having a shotgun and rifle available sound very useful, particularly for pest control (e.g. crow, pigeon, fox, rabbit etc), I was unsure of the practicality. I can see the advantage of having a shotgun, a centrefire rifle and a rimfire or small calibre rifle in an insert (Einstecklaufe) in one firearm, but I wondered how practical this is for stalking, as I am aware of several stalkers and estates who will not allow single shot rifles for deer.

I also wondered how practical using the drilling loaded with two shotgun slugs and a single rifle cartridge is for driven boar? I have never used a drilling or shot boar, so I have no idea! I noticed that most modern drillings seems to be 20 bore (to keep weight down, I think) and presumably a 20 bore slug would be too small for boar? I think some countries insist on a minimum of 1oz slugs.

A solution may be to have a large calibre insert, converting the drilling to a double rifle with a shotgun barrel, so would a modern drilling, such as a Blaser D99 or a Zoli Drilling stand the pressure of a 7x65r insert, for instance? I noticed there is a premium if you have the D99 Duo with two large calibre barrels, so I thought it may need some modifications.

All this is obviously just theory but any thoughts would be welcome.
 

stalker.308

Well-Known Member
Will answer a few of your points as I do have a drilling! I have a Sauer 3000, which is a 7x65r, 16g 16g although in one of the 16g I have a short .22lr insert, can take it in and out without gunsmithing. It is never going to be as quick as loading bolt action rifle, but not far behind, as its only like reloading a shotgun eg break barrel, take out one and put in another. I recently shot 3 goats with 3 shots in less than 30 seconds but I knew the chance was on for a few so I had the ammuntion ready to load as I was in a lying position.

Re the use for boar, when I went out last year lots of people were using 16g, same as mine, loaded with slugs so it is suitable in Germany but not sure on 20g.

Take a look on egun.de and type in Einstecklaufe. They do appear to come in many different calibers etc but these are the long inserts that need fitting not the short ones that you do yourself.

My day to day is a Sauer 202 BA rifle. The drilling is a bit of a treat I use every so often to spice things up and in particular for woodland stalking, as it is lighter, shorter barrels and mounts much quicker, which is handier in woodlands. It also means I can take a pointed woodcock with my Munsterlander if the opportunity arises whilst out stalking, and also start to thin the rabbits out when I have finished stalking and on the way back to the car.

​Couple of pics of my drilling!

 

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Pine Marten

Well-Known Member
I’m a huge fan of drillings and would dearly love to have one, but they’re expensive things, and I can’t really work out when I’d use it, unless of course I decided to sell all the other shotguns and rifles, in which case I’d use it all the time. The latest Merkel K96 drillings come with steel-proofed shotgun barrels and 3” chambers, so you could even use them for wildfowling. Realistically, I can think of two main purposes for them. The first is if you’re primarily roaming around looking for woodcock and happen to come across a deer, which happens quite a bit. You could then “upgrade” to the deer, assuming that you have the shooting rights for it. I don’t actually have anywhere to shoot where I can shoot large and small game, so that’s useless. I don’t think you’d go out deerstalking and opportunistically take a pot at a rabbit though as you would ruin your chances of a successful stalk by doing so. That’s why I don’t shoot at squirrels when I’m out after small game. Lots of people just use them as a single-shot rifle. But that strikes me as bit of a waste.

A lot of people in France buy them for driven shooting large game, but they’re not really suited to that, unless you have an “express-drilling” which is essentially a double-rifle with a shotgun barrel. So it’s primarily for driven big game, but you could always take a shot at a woodcock.

If I had a spare five or six grand, and the Met would let me have another 7mm slot, I’d buy a Merkel K96 in 12 bore with 3” chambers, steel-proofed barrels and a 7x65R rifle barrel, swing-off mounts and something like a 2-7-42 scope on top. Then I’d find some excuse to use it! That said, you can pick them up for ~£2k quite easily second hand in France. I think my most likely excuse to buy one is to leave it at my brother-in-law’s place in France for when I go over there. I don’t see how I’m going to have a chance to shoot anywhere where I can go after large and small game over here.
 

Jagare

Well-Known Member
If you are shooting slugs from a drilling then it has to be regulated to shoot slugs. My Combi shoots slugs about 6" lower than the bullet at 50 mtrs. Where i find the combi comes into its own is when hunting roe with my teckle. A dose of #1s for roe out to 25 mtrs and the rifle barrel for the longer shots.
 

Heym SR20

Well-Known Member
I pretty much use my Ferlach built 16/7x65r as my every day gun. Why, I really like the functionality and safety. You can carry it Brocken like a shotgun, and quietly close it as required. It doesn't disturb the public like a rifle does ( most of by stalking has quite a few dog walkers etc). I use the shot barrel for close range foxes and other vermin, and I have once used the shot barrel on a close up finishing shot.

As a travelling gun they have no equal. Been looking for a Red stag today. We might have a go at some ducks tomorrow.

What is not to like - ok they are not stainless and moderated. But so what!
 

Mr. Gain

Well-Known Member
I acquired a 7x57 + 16g/16g Krieghoff drilling (c/w a 3-9x42 Kahles Helia scope in Ferlacher QD swing-off mounts) about a year ago. Once I got it out shooting I was pleased to discover that the rifled barrel shot very nicely to the open sights at 100m and that after zeroing the scope at this range slugs from the 16g tubes shot to the same point-of-aim at 50m with a 3" spread. I took it along on a few driven pheasant days too, and found it quick on target, easy to swing, and generally good at killing birds.

The only tiny fly in the otherwise aromatic ointment is the gun's "party trick" -the express sight in the rib pops up when you select the rifle barrel... but it drops flat again when you switch back to the smooth bores, so you can't use the open sights to shoot slug more accurately, and couldn't benefit from them with an einstecklauf (or two) fitted.

As for when to use it, Heym SR20 and Stalker 308 have pretty much summed it up. Personally, I really like to have a gun that lets me choose how to spend a day out on my gound. If I draw a blank after a couple of hours in the high seat but fancy standing on a flight line for some pigeons, or walking a hedgerow for a woodcock or pheasant in the season; or conversely, if I'm after birds and I get a chance at a fox or deer, then either way there's no need to change guns.

It can be a good choice when lamping foxes too -provided they're not too wary -as the rifled barrel will take them out to around 150 yards while the shotgun barrels handle any that run all the way in to the squeak.

The gun came with a leather case for the scope, similar to Stalker 308's but in brown, with a long strap that allows it to be slung over your shoulder, out of the way until needed, at which point the excellent QD mount lets you fit the scope very quickly and quietly.

I have thought about adding an einstecklauf but feel the problems of sighting in a second rifled barrel to shoot to the same POA, and the loss of the capability for a right-and-left (or a forlorn hope!) with shot, outweigh the possible benefits, except perhaps if one wanted to turn the gun into a large-calibre double, as the OP suggests.
 
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stevec

Well-Known Member
If you are shooting slugs from a drilling then it has to be regulated to shoot slugs. My Combi shoots slugs about 6" lower than the bullet at 50 mtrs. Where i find the combi comes into its own is when hunting roe with my teckle. A dose of #1s for roe out to 25 mtrs and the rifle barrel for the longer shots.

Jagare - if you don't mind me asking, which make is your combi?

Thanks for all the answers. Stalker 308's drilling sounds perfect. Are drillings normally regulated for slugs and rifle bullets to shoot to the same point of impact? I presume it would be a very expensive problem to rectify if they are not!
 

stevec

Well-Known Member
Just wondered how you would go about buying from egun or naturabuy, presumably this would be a minefield, unless you had a contact in Germany or France?

Fascinating to read the replies to the post. Great to see how different people enjoy their sport.
 
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stalker.308

Well-Known Member
Easy buying from egun! There is a fantastic thing called 'google translate' but you will find most Germans speak very good english. They are mostly all so honest, especially when selling over here as if they do not stick to what was said there will be expensive consequences of getting it back to them. You must ask all the right questions and also get them to do a shooting test to prove its accuracy and if you are interested in whether it is regulated also get them to test the slugs too.

I have bought a drilling and an insert barrel sent over, both were gun shops using egun, and they just sent it to my rfd, all he had to do was email a copy of his rfd certificate. Insurance is a bit of a problem at the moment in Germany, as DHL will no longer insure firearms, but there are still a few companies still offering insurance but this is expensive. If I remember rightly it cost me £120 to get my drilling sent over insured.
 

Jagare

Well-Known Member
Jagare - if you don't mind me asking, which make is your combi?

Thanks for all the answers. Stalker 308's drilling sounds perfect. Are drillings normally regulated for slugs and rifle bullets to shoot to the same point of impact? I presume it would be a very expensive problem to rectify if they are not!

Its a Merkel 211E. 12 bore over 7x57R with factory claw mounted kahles scope. Have a look at,Cobination weapons
 
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9.3x64

Well-Known Member
Hello all,
I too am also a drilling fanatic. My first days ever hunting as a young boy were with my Grandfather here in Australia hunting with his old 16gx16gx6.5x57R. What great memories I have of using that gun. It was used on everything from Quail to Red deer and always for the table. They are such fascinating guns. Today I am like Stalker.308 my day to day rifle is a Blaser R8. Using a drilling is a bit of a treat to spice things up occasionally especially when hunting with my GSP. Some days I will head out in the paddock hunting deer with my GSP and things do not always go to plan. But you can guarantee that if my best mate and I (Schroeder the GSP) are hunting with a drilling we will always find some fun. We will end up hunting hare, duck, quail, or fox etc. I believe that is where a drilling really shines. It’s versatility to give you options when things don’t always go the way you planned.
My current drillings are a 1964 Merkel drilling in 12gx12gx.222 Remington. Great fox gun.
And a 2007 Merkel model L961 Double rifle drilling in 9.3x74Rx9.3x74Rx20gx76mm. This gun is built on a 28gauge action and is extremely light and agile and quick to reload. The front trigger operates both rifle barrels in quick succession like a single trigger shotgun. The rear trigger is for the shotgun barrel.
It’s more suited for Buffalo, pig and deer, but when Schroeder has been in the mood we have also been successful on quail with it.
If you ever get the opportunity to hunt with a drilling I cannot recommend them enough, it is never boring.
It also isn’t a bad idea to have a shotgun barrel under your rifle when you’re in snake country.
Anyway apologies to rave on.
 

stevec

Well-Known Member
I just wondered, does anyone know which models are suitable for a 7x65r insert? The information on the internet is mixed, with several sites suggesting that these can only be used in over and under combination guns.

I presume it is more usual to use a shotgun slug as a fast backup?

Also, I mentioned in an earlier post that I am aware of estates in the UK who do not allow single shot rifles. Is a drilling likely to be frowned upon for boar or stalking abroad?

​Many thanks
 

9.3x64

Well-Known Member
Hi Stevec, I would email Keppler in Germany and ask them.
They make the below inserts.
I have never used an insert, but am very curious about them.


Stainless insert barrels with barrel lengths up to 650 mm:
Insert Barrel CaliberGauge
.17 HMR12/16/20
.22 lfB12/16/20
.22 WMR12/16/20
.22 Hornet12/16/20
.22 Hornet superlight12/16
.222 Remington12/16/20
.223 Remington12/16/20
.204 Ruger12/16/20
5,6 x 50 R Magnum12/16/20
5,6 x 52 R Savage12/16/20
6 x 52 Bretschneider12/16/20
6 x 7012/16/20
Fullbore insert barrels with barrel lengths up to 650 mm
(only suitable for over-and-under rifles with an accordingly strong action):

Further calibers and overlength insert barrels up to 720 mm are available on request.
We recommend conferring with us or your dealer before inserting an insert barrel bigger than .22 Hornet in break-action firearms, especially drillings of older age, to prevent your firearm from damages through overstraining the action.

Insert Barrel Caliber
Gauge
30-30
12/16/20
6,5 x 57 R
12/16/20
6,5 x 65 R
12/16/20
7 x 57 R
12/16/20
7 x 65 R
12/16/20
.30 R Blaser
12/16/20
8 x 57 IRS
12/16/20
9,3 x 72 R
12/16/20
30-06
12/16/20
.308 Winchester
12/16/20
.243 Winchester
12/16/20
.270 Winchester
12/16
.8 x 57 IR
12/16/20
9,3 x 74 IR
12
 

mchughcb

Well-Known Member
I use my sauer 3000 export drilling in 7x65R 12g/12g on driven game, particulary foxes. I've dropped deer with it as well, plus rabbits, hares and crows. Never shot a pig with it but my guess is it will die. If you are wanting to shoot on driven game then I'm sure you could fire slugs or buckshot out of it. At the longer ranges just swap over to the 7x65R. I also use a blaser combo with 7x57R 12G and this is what I use almost every week. The R93 hasn't been out for a while. Most of the stalking means I get a clear shot so generally only one shot is required as the deer are not disturbed. The sauer can be a bit heavy with the larger frame at 3.65kg and with the zeiss steel scope its comes out at 4.2kg+ so its right up there in weight. Having said that, it is a woodland gun. Designed to shoot anything encountered in the woods, but shooting 200+m with the 7x65R is no problem. My current load is sub 30mm at 100m.

I bought mine of Egun but I can tell you if you buy from Germany and you come from a non EU country what a flippen nightmare and the Germans really like whacking on some stupid taxes and paperwork.

I bought a kreighoff Einstecklauf in 22Mag for the right hand shotgun barrel and had our local ferlacher gunsmith put it in for me. I will shoot 30mm groups at 80m using the CCI vmax 30gr.

If you are thinking about a drilling or a quality combo gun go for it. The sauer 3000 are relatively cheap and the blaser D99 according the Klupps is the best ever made !
 

daven

Well-Known Member
Just wondered how you would go about buying from egun or naturabuy, presumably this would be a minefield, unless you had a contact in Germany or France?

Fascinating to read the replies to the post. Great to see how different people enjoy their sport.

Drillings are nice and a good conversation piece. Watching egun myself for one now but doubt I'll spend the money a decent one will bring. If you don't need that small caliber, the O/U combos are nice and you can pick them up quite a bit on egun with one barral set up with a scope and a second double shotgun barrel to swap out as needed.
An example...
http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=4586961
I used one from a buddy a couple weeks ago and actually liked the feel of it better than my mauser (feels like you have something in your hands)...
If you need help with translating, you can PM me. My German isn't perfect, but I can steer you right.
 

Conor1

Well-Known Member
The only Drillings that I see over here are on the racks off the gundealer. Now a BBF is very popular especially 12/70&7.65R. The shotgun usually has bird shot for a close range fox for a quiet high seat session and a slug for a driven hunt. I have one but don't use it................
 

daven

Well-Known Member
The only Drillings that I see over here are on the racks off the gundealer. Now a BBF is very popular especially 12/70&7.65R. The shotgun usually has bird shot for a close range fox for a quiet high seat session and a slug for a driven hunt. I have one but don't use it................

may as well pack it up and send it to me then...........:rolleyes:
 

stevec

Well-Known Member
I use my sauer 3000 export drilling in 7x65R 12g/12g on driven game, particulary foxes. I've dropped deer with it as well, plus rabbits, hares and crows. Never shot a pig with it but my guess is it will die. If you are wanting to shoot on driven game then I'm sure you could fire slugs or buckshot out of it. At the longer ranges just swap over to the 7x65R. I also use a blaser combo with 7x57R 12G and this is what I use almost every week. The R93 hasn't been out for a while. Most of the stalking means I get a clear shot so generally only one shot is required as the deer are not disturbed. The sauer can be a bit heavy with the larger frame at 3.65kg and with the zeiss steel scope its comes out at 4.2kg+ so its right up there in weight. Having said that, it is a woodland gun. Designed to shoot anything encountered in the woods, but shooting 200+m with the 7x65R is no problem. My current load is sub 30mm at 100m.

I bought mine of Egun but I can tell you if you buy from Germany and you come from a non EU country what a flippen nightmare and the Germans really like whacking on some stupid taxes and paperwork.

I bought a kreighoff Einstecklauf in 22Mag for the right hand shotgun barrel and had our local ferlacher gunsmith put it in for me. I will shoot 30mm groups at 80m using the CCI vmax 30gr.

If you are thinking about a drilling or a quality combo gun go for it. The sauer 3000 are relatively cheap and the blaser D99 according the Klupps is the best ever made !

The only thing that puts me off the Blaser D99 is the 20 bore barrels, because I thought that 20 bore slugs would be too small for boar, although I may be wrong!
 

daven

Well-Known Member
The only thing that puts me off the Blaser D99 is the 20 bore barrels, because I thought that 20 bore slugs would be too small for boar, although I may be wrong!

Doesn't take the world to kill a pig... Never had any growing up, but white tail deer are bigger. We could only use shotgun and slug. A .410 was the gun of choice for plenty of folks. Mostly one shot=1 kill.... Don't know about your area but the ammunition price is a turn off for anything other than 12 gauge here....
 
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