Dsc 2 and covid

Reloader708

Well-Known Member
DSC 2...could this be done via a Garmin vid, Skype link, zoom etc? Just thinking out loud, it's been a strange time getting AW and stalkers together lately. The latest problem among others; had a call saying the witness is part of a household under lockdown and wont be able to do anything now until November. Plus the whole thing of sharing vehicles etc
Surely in these modern times there's another way, after all it's only evidence gathering!? 🤔

And before anyone gets all aggressive and gives me a good telling, it's only a discussion!
Just trying to think of a different approach.
 

TonyC

Well-Known Member
I'm afraid I wouldn't be comfortable being an AW on a zoom stalk, I think your creativity should be directed to finding another AW who can meet you at the stalk and who isn't in lockdown.
 

Tim.243

Well-Known Member
DSC 2...could this be done via a Garmin vid, Skype link, zoom etc? Just thinking out loud, it's been a strange time getting AW and stalkers together lately. The latest problem among others; had a call saying the witness is part of a household under lockdown and wont be able to do anything now until November. Plus the whole thing of sharing vehicles etc
Surely in these modern times there's another way, after all it's only evidence gathering!? 🤔

And before anyone gets all aggressive and gives me a good telling, it's only a discussion!
Just trying to think of a different approach.
Despite that I can't see how any guide can keep 2 meters or even with a mask on from a stalker when whispering directions etc.....Cue cards.... " That is a gold medal " "that is a silver" " they have gone" " you missed it"
 

Reloader708

Well-Known Member
Despite that I can't see how any guide can keep 2 meters or even with a mask on from a stalker when whispering directions etc.....Cue cards.... " That is a gold medal " "that is a silver" " they have gone" " you missed it"
"You missed it" 👍
 

willie_gunn

Well-Known Member
Despite that I can't see how any guide can keep 2 meters or even with a mask on from a stalker when whispering directions etc.....Cue cards.... " That is a gold medal " "that is a silver" " they have gone" " you missed it"

Not really sure why the AW would be whispering those type of directions!

At the start of a witnessed stalk the AW and candidate determine the cull animal required (PC 1.2).

I'd suggest that's the appropriate time at which to agree any restrictions, e.g. "You can shoot any muntjac doe. Don't shoot any roe buck other than a yearling, unless you are happy to pay the trophy fees."

After that the AW is then witnessing, not guiding or giving advice.

All it needs is the candidate to say "I am going to shoot that animal - okay" followed by a thumbs-up or thumbs-down from the AW.

Personally I don't see two meters as a particular issue. If people are doing guided stalks, why not witnessed stalks?

Certainly I wouldn't do any kind of witnessed or guided stalk via Skype or similar. The whole point is to observe - without being there you don't get to see anything other than the view from the phone/drone. Safety would certainly be a concern, for example.
 

Tim.243

Well-Known Member
Not really sure why the AW would be whispering those type of directions!

At the start of a witnessed stalk the AW and candidate determine the cull animal required (PC 1.2).

I'd suggest that's the appropriate time at which to agree any restrictions, e.g. "You can shoot any muntjac doe. Don't shoot any roe buck other than a yearling, unless you are happy to pay the trophy fees."

After that the AW is then witnessing, not guiding or giving advice.

All it needs is the candidate to say "I am going to shoot that animal - okay" followed by a thumbs-up or thumbs-down from the AW.

Personally I don't see two meters as a particular issue. If people are doing guided stalks, why not witnessed stalks?

Certainly I wouldn't do any kind of witnessed or guided stalk via Skype or similar. The whole point is to observe - without being there you don't get to see anything other than the view from the phone/drone. Safety would certainly be a concern, for example.
I can't see how any guide can keep 2 meters or even with a mask on from a stalker when whispering directions etc.....Cue cards.... " That is a gold medal " "that is a silver" " they have gone" " you missed it"

As you said a AW is a witness....my comment is above is as it stands. @ 2 mtrs whispering directions to someone so they and you both understand as the guide will be looking at much more than the stalker who will be focused on only one thing....Pick the wrong Roe buck and you could be ringing the wife for a dip in the savings lol

 

jb7x57

Well-Known Member
2 mtrs may not be close enough or may not be practical to see when the candidate removes the safety catch and other observations
 

willie_gunn

Well-Known Member
With a face mask the distance is 1 metre.


I can have normal conversations with people In shops and elsewhere whilst wearing a mask, without the need to raise my voice excessively. If we are concerned about the distance Itself then we shouldn’t allow guided stalks either - what is the rationale for treating witnessed stalks any differenty?

On witnessed stalks as part of the briefing I tell the candidate that they will only hear me speak if I consider that they are about to do something unsafe, or make a major error. 1 metre is fine for that - with or without a mask. If I can’t observe the candidate’s use of a safety catch at 1 metre then I am not sure how it is that I can spot the flick of a muntjacs ear at 50 metres. ;)

The time before the stalk is when you have the opportunity to describe the ground, together with any hazards or considerations, the route that should be taken, the animals that should be culled, etc.

Witnessed stalks are not meant to be treated as training exercises.

If, as an AW, you are not happy doing witnessed stalks during the current conditions then by all means refuse to do them. The point I am trying to make is that witnessed stalks are still manageable - and running them taking due consideration of the current restrictions is preferable (at least IMHO) than trying to kluge something together using Zoom, Skype or drones!
 

sikamalc

Administrator
Site Staff
Wouldn't really work as you need to see exactly what the candidate is doing and at days end be ready to speak to the Assessor regarding the candidates experience whilst undertaking the level 2.
 

dunwater

Well-Known Member
You guys definitely have too much time on your hands.
The AW is there to confirm that the various criteria are met, if an AW agrees to an outing and you're happy to go along what's the problem?
If either of you are unhappy with the situation just don't go.
 

Sabian223

Well-Known Member
Agree entirely with Dunwater as above, you'll more than likely have face coverings on anyway (or at least id like to hope you would). You can be safely observed from a distance of 2 metres to cover off the icr criteria and providing your quiet enough you can confirm the quarry and sex befofe taking the shot.
 

Tim.243

Well-Known Member
Agree entirely with Dunwater as above, you'll more than likely have face coverings on anyway (or at least id like to hope you would). You can be safely observed from a distance of 2 metres to cover off the icr criteria and providing your quiet enough you can confirm the quarry and sex befofe taking the shot.

What the AW's do is a good thing however from stalking/foxing/pigeon/duck shooting on teal ponds in the near and dark, shooting in one hide with people, taking out visitors from abroad then safety and good communication is key.



Where this " just here to observe " "that's what the book says" in this current situation breaks down will be some of what is highlighted in red...
Very easy to skip from dsc1 to signing up for dsc2 which is fine, however add the fast track with someone with very limited experience who meets the prerequisite then standing 2 mts away looking for a twitching muntjac ear is not close enough as you simply don't know what the person is going to do.

As an AW people will have a number of years under their belt so the experience level will (or should) be miles apart from the new fac/dsc1>dsc2 candidate.
That new candidate will be a bag of nerves for one thing, no different than a car test, first day in a new job etc,

With the car test I am quite sure the examiner would step in and in some cases take the person back to the test station.

On my dsc1 there was a situation that happen with members of the public walking the wrong way,
I asked to shoot from my sticks (as I do) others were using a prone platform for the 100 yd target.
AS people were so focused on the " target " including the staff apart from myself no one saw the walkers coming our way....Standing up right and looking around I started shouting " Stop Shooting" which people did...
The FC Ranger standing right next to me was " looking for muntjac ears twitching (per say) and never saw the walkers....
If you don't believe me ask Paul O' as he was there.

We all have a duty of care, you can quote the book/rules till the cows come home but
2mts is too far if you need to step in....and If that don't work then neither party should turn UP.....


Tim.243
 

baguio

Well-Known Member
Tim, you don't need to wrestle someone to the floor to make them stop what they're doing as you proved. You were more than 2 metres away from practically everyone on the range but they still stopped shooting.
If you're stood behind the candidate you should have a decent view of what he's planning on shooting at and it should be considered a safe shot long before they got so far as to remove the safety catch surely?
 

Heym SR20

Well-Known Member
I think it has be down to common sense and good judgement. Firstly you are both outdoors in the fresh air, chances are its windy. Second you need to ask if the other party is likely to have been exposed etc and are they feeling unwell. Thirdly what is the risk if you do catch the disease. Are you young fit and healthy living on your own, or are you older, living with aged and at risk other members in the same household?

like any good DSC2 candidate you need to assess and then manage the risks associated with what you are doing and proceed accordingly. And a good assessor would expect nothing less.
 

willie_gunn

Well-Known Member
The 2mtr rule only comes in if you are not wearing a mask.

Try telling someone in Tescos they have got to stay 2mtr away when wearing a mask.

There is a better way.

Any AW unsure of whether a DSC2 candidate would be able to hear them during a witnessed stalk should try this scientific experiment.....
  1. Ask your wife/partner/significant other to join you in a quiet room.
  2. Stand at a point exactly 1 metre away from them
  3. Put on a Covid compliant face mask
  4. Whisper “I think you’ve put on weight during lockdown”
Do come back and tell us how you get on.
 

Reloader708

Well-Known Member
There is a better way.

Any AW unsure of whether a DSC2 candidate would be able to hear them during a witnessed stalk should try this scientific experiment.....
  1. Ask your wife/partner/significant other to join you in a quiet room.
  2. Stand at a point exactly 1 metre away from them
  3. Put on a Covid compliant face mask
  4. Whisper “I think you’ve put on weight during lockdown”
Do come back and tell us how you get on.
Or "I'm getting another rifle"
 

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