DSC1 accreditation

Wiltshire Lad

Well-Known Member
Could anyone explain the significance of accreditation for DSC courses? I have signed up to do my DSC 1 with Jelen in December and am thoroughly looking forward to it, they recently posted that they had become "BASC accredited".

Last night I spoke with someone who knew someone (!) who had taken their DSC 1, unsure who with. He said that the person had no end of trouble as the trainer was not "accredited", he seemed to be implying that after taking the course and the exams his friend did not have a 'proper' qualification. Obviously this is third hand, so I am dubious about the validity of his claims. Is this really something that people looking to take their DSC 1 should be concerned about?
 

Eric the Red

Well-Known Member
All legitimate DSC certificates are issued by DMQ. There is no official DMQ accreditation for training, but they are a charity, with a board that has representatives of the main shooting groups on it. It is run out of BASC in Wrexham, but is a separate entity. BASC have chosen to use their position to provide a quality standard for training and this can only be a good thing. How you measure this in comparison to another accreditation or an un accredited trainer is not an easy question - I would say the viability of the course is a good indication of the quality as the market is competitive.

If you have a DMQ issued certificate, you have a legitimate qualification. Numbers can be verified with Mary at Wrexham should there be any doubt.
 

Archer

Well-Known Member
As I understand it the accreditation to BASC means that Jelen have attained a standard set by BASC and have become a BASC recommended training provider.
In terms of the course Jelen offer, it is very good, but, very intensive- and you NEED to home study plus using the web facility and completing the test papers they send you is important .
 

User00001

Well-Known Member
A good number of years ago, before DMQ existed in its current form, there were a couple of courses being run to compete with the National Stalkers Competence Certificate. I suspect that your friend went on one of these.

In due course the NSCC could be converted to a DSC1 simply by paying a small (£10/£15?) admin fee. The same happened before that when the Woodland Stalkers Competence Certificate became the NSCC. It was very well publicised but many people didn't bother to convert/update so later had to retake DSC1 if they felt they needed it. Some are still whinging about it to this day!

Only the NSCC could be converted/updated to DSC1, no other courses to the best of my knowledge.

Now, unless there really is someone out there looking to scam people, all courses that say DSC1 will be the same, genuine qualification. If in any doubt simply ring DMQ for clarification and peace of mind.

Although the DSC1 Qualification is the same across the board, the quantity/quality/style/duration of instruction will vary. Do some reseach and pick a course that suits you.
 

Peterm

Well-Known Member
Official Member
The BASC are one of several DMQ assessment centers. We have made the decision that only those accredited trainers are able to access assessment through our center. We are not saying that our training is better than any other assessment center, but what we are saying is that they are quality assured to a high standard.
 

Wiltshire Lad

Well-Known Member
Thanks for all the helpful replies. So to summarise, any DSC 1 course should get you the DMQ certificate (provided you do your bit). Accreditation just provides some comfort that the course/assessment is to a certain standard.
 

User00001

Well-Known Member
Thanks for all the helpful replies. So to summarise, any DSC 1 course should get you the DMQ certificate (provided you do your bit). Accreditation just provides some comfort that the course/assessment is to a certain standard.

Yes, but..... The fact that it is a DMQ DSC1 course/qualification is really all you need to ensure that it is at the required standard as they have a robust system of Assessors and Internal Verifiers.

The BASC Acreditation for the Training is in addition to this and only means that the training is up to their standards which may be higher or lower than the next persons. Not being pedantic (and certainly no knocking BASC training as I am an Approved Trainer myself in one area) but it is important to understand that a BASC DSC1 is not at some higher level than a 'Joe Bloggs and Co' DSC1. If the BASC Accreditation element gives you greater confidence in the training provider then fair enough but I would suggest you would be equally assured of good training from BDS or many of the independent providers.
 

Paul at Fechan

Well-Known Member
the important information guys is that the highest pass rates for dsc1 courses come from Barony and North Highland college..... well it's obvious if you think about it because both assessment centres are dedicated further education organisations using professional teachers and lecturers specifically trained to educate adults and young people of all learning abilities.

BASC has coined the term 'accredited' but it means nothing more than 'branded' in fairness. A big question is how much dosh swings BASC's way after a trainer becomes accredited and is under their wing? That's a good question ;) but a better question is what training is provided for trainers to achieve this mystic accredited status?! or what professionally recognised standards are involved in the process!! Is there training, development and standardisation?

I would like to know as a person who specifically trained to teach young people and adults including those with reading and writing difficulties.
 

Peterm

Well-Known Member
Official Member
Meant in a constructive manner

How would you know you have the highest pass rates?

The BASC trainers have to meet all the requirements set down in our Technical Quality Assurance manual. They will need to meet all the criteria and provide evidence that they have done so. They are also evaluated on every course they deliver and visited periodically as part of the quality assurance process.

Well i've studied and worked at four Universities, some of the lecturers are good, some are not so good. The lecturers in most instances tend to be researchers who have to take on lecturing responsibilities as part of their contract of employment at the university. They are not necessarily trained teachers as you would find in a school.

I fully understand that this may be different at your college

Peter
 
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Moray Outfitting

Well-Known Member
Paul

Genuine query here - you are advertisng a service and make the claim - ' the highest pass rates for dsc1 courses come from Barony and North Highland college.....'

On that basis entirely reasonable to pose the question ' how do you know' and I really think you are doing yourself down with a glib 'cos we asked'.

I know Jelen have quoted pass rates previously and think they still show them on their website. I understand some of those quoted years are 100%. Now my genuine apologies to Mike A in dragging Jelen into this, but it was the handiest example. Fundamentally its pretty hard to ace 100%.

Personally, I honestly believe that headline pass rates are something of a red herring - without a great long list of caveats/ details on how figure derived etc. There are a number of providers, all offer something a bit different ( though I note Mike is trying to catch up with me and Jayb - well Jayb at least on the power band stakes
;) ). Ultimately, with Assessors being involved in the delivery of the Assessment; with the consequent checks and controls upon them; I doubt there is a 'bad' course out there.

So against that context - you have raised a statement as a piece of commercial advertising, you haven't given a straight answer when queried - please could you clarify and evidence it.


 

sws

Well-Known Member
Paul's comments are irrelevant anyway- it makes no difference what the pass rate is as you are not measuring like for like as you have no way of assessing a candidates prior knowledge. Those who have a working knowledge of deer are more likely to pass then those without! If you were able to remove that skew then you would be able to compare results.
 

Moray Outfitting

Well-Known Member
SWS thats part of the reasoning behind how such figures can be misleading, not the whole story but part of it.

But Paul made a statement and I believe needs to substantiate it.

I think its the apples and oranges element that is part of the strength of the system - by offering choice.
 
One point that seems to have been missed, is that the exam papers are set by DMQ and are verified afterwards by their internal verifier. Styles of presentation and content may vary between providers, but they have no control over the exam content.
 

Moray Outfitting

Well-Known Member
270WSM - wholly agree.

SWS - spin only required where substance is lacking. And by all accounts - aside from some dubious issues regards KitKat bars - Paul is highly regarded.

Eric the Red put it very well.

Not aimed at Paul, and concede that as providers its a fraught issue to raise - but from SD posts and enquiries we get there is a great deal of confusion surrounding the whole process. Advertising is a fair and established method of attracting custom - but the last thing either the 'industry' or potential customers need is more confusion being generated by spin, over enthusiastic marketing or whatever.

Not a witch hunt on Paul - just believe the statement needs clarifying.

Signed Andy, the worlds greatest Deer Stalker, most handsome SD member if not resident of the UK and voted the very best rifle instructor by the prestigeous ' SBIMIAP' organisation in their recent poll of both members.... see where spin can lead! ;)
 

Wiltshire Lad

Well-Known Member
Quite a set of replies. My question wasn't really about who's best, as you'll see from my first post I already have my course booked with a Jelen. I wouldn't necessarily choose a surgeon with the highest success rate. Without knowing the specifics of the patients those stats are meaningless.

The core of my question was as to whether there was something deeper in the importance of accreditation in relation to the validity of the qualification. I think we quickly established that there wasn't.

In the couple of months lurking here I had seen no comments about people passing their DSC then not getting the qualification they expected. This was the reason behind my post, as last night I spoke to a friendly man with a Glock 17 on his hip and a H&K MP5 in the boot. We got to talking about which calibers I held and I mentioned my upcoming DSC1. He then gave me the story about his mate having completed the course but not getting the qualification as the trainer wasn't accredited. As above, I hadn't heard of anything like this before, so I asked the question here expecting the early response I got. What I wasn't expecting was the beauty parade/punch up that followed.:lol:
 

Paul at Fechan

Well-Known Member
providers aren't always actual assessment centres and so then their paperwork and stats just merges in with their assessment centres pool who manage their paperwork. Any provider might be achieve 100% and put his heart and soul into his teaching but if he's running his courses partnered with an assessment centre then they absorb the stats.

don't rise to teasing, I'm bad for that..

We (the short course manager to be fair) requested the stats on pass rated to see how we fared overall, to be honest there was very little between the top centres.
 
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Moray Outfitting

Well-Known Member
Wiltshire Lad - I apologise unreservedly to you. My posts have added to the 'bun fight' feel and whilst a progression of the debate were clearly not a part of your original post direction.

Rest assured, DSC1 providers dont get embroiled in beauty parades - at a secret meeting we voted Jon Snowden as the official Poster Boy! :D

Without completely going against what I have written above, I have to respectfully say that I dont believe you answered the question Paul. But in view of WLs post above, I'm not intending to push it here.
 
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