Entry & Exit Wounds Nowhere Near Eachother

Bit of an odd one.

I shot a young Red Stag tonight off the sticks at about 75 yards. I judged him to be just off broadside, quatering to me just a hair. I made the decision though to take him on the shoulder as the field I was in was surrounded by dense woodland and I did not want him running.

He hunched at the shot, took two steps backwards and went down. Alarm bells rang in my ears - gutshot. No follow up shot was needed however, a couple of kicks and he expired.

On reaching him for the gralloch I found the entry wound at the point of aim, but the bullet hadn't exited. Instead, it had come to rest just under the skin at his most rearward rib on the opposite side. It had deformed just perfectly and was facing outward in the expected direction of travel. I was absolutely amazed how far back it was though.

The internal damage was huge, organs and green everywhere - one for the dogs.

What are SD members experiences of bullets turning or deflecting on the way through an animal as I can't see what else happened?

Bullet used was a Norma 130gr Soft Point out of my .270

Thanks.

 

[alberta boy]

I've seen two instances where bullets did almost right angle turns after penetrating an animal. The first was on a white-tail doe ( about 125 lbs live weight ) I shot just behind the shoulder at about 100 yrds. She was standing broadside and dropped at the shot. When I went to field dress her I found her offside front leg was torn up badly and almost severed just above the elbow. After field dressing I found the bullet had passed through the lungs and hit inside of the opposite shoulder blade. It then deflected straight down destroying the inside of the upper leg and smashing the bone at the elbow before exiting. The caliber used was a 30-06 with a Hornady 180 Spire Point. I've used this combination for years on everything from moose to deer with no problems and still use this loading today. Its just one of those things.
The second was very similiar. My father, who was 80 at the time, shot a large white-tail buck at about 75 yrds. The circumstances were the same, broadside on, shot just behind the shoulder and dropped instantly. What was peculiar was ,at the shot, there was a explosion of hair on the offside of the buck at the shot. I saw it more clearly than Dad as he momentarily lost sight because of recoil. When we went to dress him out we found the bullet had done the same as above ( hit the inside of the opposite shoulder ) but it deflected down the full length of the deer just under the skin and then lodged in the inside of the haunch muscle. The flying hair I saw was from the bullet distorting the skin on the far side of his body. Definitly one of the stranger shots I've seen. The round used was a 30-06 with a nosler 165 partition, it had text book expansion and did penetrate as advertised, just not as expected lol.I wouldn't call it bullet failure, both bullets performed well and both animals dropped at the shot.
As I said above, its just one of those things.

AB

 

[THE STALKER]

I had the same this year on a Roe Buck,the Buck was neck shot with my 243 at from a bipod rest and dropped on the spot .

After the Gralloch i found the Bullet had gone down the spine and hit the heart.

 

[bewsher500]

had several examples of this

.270 RWS 150gr H Mantel factory load
broadside
entry just behind and above elbow
exit through rumen and opposite gut wall

same day same round
also deflected exit to rear but not into gut

.270 130gr Interlock reload in norma brass
slightly quartering towards just as you describe
bullet did exactly what you describe and ended up under the skin at the last rib on the opposite side

http://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk/showthread.php/71595-Stag-Do!




​doesnt take much to deflect them sometimes especially on a quartering shot

 

[NickJ]

A shame when the shot is good and the carcase is wasted for sure.

Did it smash the shoulder bone/s on entry? The most extreme case I had was where it shattered a rib over the lower lungs but then did a vertical 90 degrees and smashed the spine, I put it down to hitting the rib on the way in. That was a 140 grain core-shok Federal in 6.5x55 on a sika hind.
Having said that I do think my .243 generally threw up more instances of the bullets path being erratic on impact including a high brisket shot on a red hind that veered south to hit the far leg below the knee, luckily it was on the hill so a follow up shot was possible.
I guess it makes sense that the lighter, faster bullets are more prone to it. I've certainly never had such with the .308

 

[pete evans]

shot a muntjac broadside 30 metres perfect entry for a heart shot. Exit out of top of head. 100gn speer in 243

 

[caorach]

Having said that I do think my .243 generally threw up more instances of the bullets path being erratic on impact including a high brisket shot on a red hind that veered south to hit the far leg below the knee, luckily it was on the hill so a follow up shot was possible.
I guess it makes sense that the lighter, faster bullets are more prone to it. I've certainly never had such with the .308

Until this thread the 243 was the only cartridge that I'd heard of that did this, often with muntjac for some reason, on a regular basis however it seems it isn't the only one which is interesting. I don't think it is a speed thing as a 100 grain bullet from a 243 isn't going any different to many other normal deer cartridges - my 308 gives 3000 fps with a 150 grain bullet for example and by the time you go down range a bit that's got to be as close to a 100 grain 243 as makes no difference. Also many of the bullets don't deviate until they have penetrated for some distance and at that point they will have lost velocity in relation to what they've hit on the way, so it would be almost random as to whether a 243 or 308 was going more quickly at the point of deviation.

Maybe because this is a relatively rare event the fact that 243 probably shoots more deer than the rest of the cartridges put together is what makes it appear like it is the main offender in this department?

Anyone else any theories as I can't help but feel I'm missing something obvious here.

 

[Alantoo]

A few weeks ago a Muntjac buck, broadside at just under 50 metres, .308W 150gr Sako super hammerhead SP

The bullet entered for a perfect heart shot, heart came out in three pieces, bullet hit the ribs on the opposite side turned at right angles horizontally and carved a 25mm swathe through half a dozen ribs and then exited through the flank, luckily in front of the haunch. Offside shoulder badly bashed/bruised but the haunches and backs traps were rescued.

A friend with much experience said he had only had it happen once. A fallow doe, probably with Sako 150gr .308W he thought, bullet entered hit the heart and exited vertically down through the breast bone. He said his one was also at close quarters around the 50 metres.

My experience certainly made me think about the notion of a safe backstop....if the bullet exits at right angles and upwards....anybody any clues as to the likely energy loss involved with a right angle turn?

Alan

 

[mereside]

i shot a buck real close last weekend and it entered as aimed then hit the rib on the otherside sending the bullet straight down taking the rib and breastplate also performed a standing gralloch I was abit shocked as to what happened and sent the dog straight in before it kindly fell over. you could see after the carcass was hung up the entry and the opposite side rib had been completly removed but the bullet then travelled downwards hitting the breastplate. 270 /130 grain no damage to the rumen although it was on the floor and heart and lungs trashed.

 

[norma 308]

Carcase wasted was it so bad you couldn't eat it yourself ,yes it couldn't enter a dealer / butchers but it would jolly well have entered my freezer !
​Norma

 

[NickJ]

Until this thread the 243 was the only cartridge that I'd heard of that did this, often with muntjac for some reason, on a regular basis however it seems it isn't the only one which is interesting. I don't think it is a speed thing as a 100 grain bullet from a 243 isn't going any different to many other normal deer cartridges - my 308 gives 3000 fps with a 150 grain bullet for example and by the time you go down range a bit that's got to be as close to a 100 grain 243 as makes no difference. Also many of the bullets don't deviate until they have penetrated for some distance and at that point they will have lost velocity in relation to what they've hit on the way, so it would be almost random as to whether a 243 or 308 was going more quickly at the point of deviation.

Maybe because this is a relatively rare event the fact that 243 probably shoots more deer than the rest of the cartridges put together is what makes it appear like it is the main offender in this department?

Anyone else any theories as I can't help but feel I'm missing something obvious here.

Maybe the 'lighter' bit rather than 'faster' then! It was pretty unscientific and anecdotal on my part and aye, I've shot a lot more deer with the .243 than any other calibre so could well have been that fact that made me believe it was more prone.

 

[glogin]

Carcase wasted was it so bad you couldn't eat it yourself ,yes it couldn't enter a dealer / butchers but it would jolly well have entered my freezer !
​Norma

+1

​I cant imaging a shot that ruins the whole beast when recovered in time

 

[Pine Marten]

I mashed up a chunk of the only muntjac I've shot to date as it was quartering a bit more than was ideal and the bullet came out further back than would have been ideal. But all four legs were intact as well as most of the backstraps, there was just a large messy chunk in the middle that I had to chuck. Slightly messy process but I recovered most of the meat despite the burst rumen...

 

[caorach]

Maybe the 'lighter' bit rather than 'faster' then!

Well, mass is effectively the property that resists acceleration which could mean not just a change in velocity but also a change in direction.

So it is always going to be easier to change the direction of a bullet with less mass. The bullet with less mass will also exert less force for a change in acceleration - so say it hit a bone a heavy bullet might break the bone and carry on because it exerts more force upon that bone whereas a lighter bullet may fail to break the same bone and be accelerated off a a different direction.

The old time big game hunters who developed cartridges that launched heavy bullets at 2000fps in order to get straight line penetration into an elephant, for example, were certainly doing something right and heavy and relatively slow will always penetrate better than fast.

Even given all of this I can't quite rationalise why we do see such dramatic changes in direction but based on what I've said it is clear that lighter bullets are going to be more prone to deviation especially where the bones of the deer are more resistant to force - which probably means bigger and stronger. Maybe muntjac have especially strong ribs

 

[foxdropper]

Shot a roebuck off sticks down at Martins one eve and the bullet entered chest to exit through the back leg off side with no rumen damage ,the biggest roe either of us have seen grassed at 52 lb[ bar the peruke that i had many years ago that went 71 lb but with good reason] . Does seem to be something to do with the beast quartering on mind .

 

[Paul 600]

I have shot a Sika hind and calf with my 30-06 and a 125 grain Nosler BT. Good broadside shots in the engine room. Both looked like I had tried to Cape them. Bullet did penetrate and exit as well. Not prettey. That was about 15 years ago and I believe Nosler have sorted it!

 

[howy308]

Carcase wasted was it so bad you couldn't eat it yourself ,yes it couldn't enter a dealer / butchers but it would jolly well have entered my freezer !
​Norma

+1 cant believe it wasted the whole carcass!

 

[alberta boy]

Until this thread the 243 was the only cartridge that I'd heard of that did this, often with muntjac for some reason, on a regular basis however it seems it isn't the only one which is interesting. I don't think it is a speed thing as a 100 grain bullet from a 243 isn't going any different to many other normal deer cartridges - my 308 gives 3000 fps with a 150 grain bullet for example and by the time you go down range a bit that's got to be as close to a 100 grain 243 as makes no difference. Also many of the bullets don't deviate until they have penetrated for some distance and at that point they will have lost velocity in relation to what they've hit on the way, so it would be almost random as to whether a 243 or 308 was going more quickly at the point of deviation.

Maybe because this is a relatively rare event the fact that 243 probably shoots more deer than the rest of the cartridges put together is what makes it appear like it is the main offender in this department?

Anyone else any theories as I can't help but feel I'm missing something obvious here.

I think you're right in assuming that its the widespread use of the 243 in the UK, rather than any particular characteristic unique to the 243. As i said in my previous post, both instances happened using 30-06's with decent bullets. I think its more of an angle of impact on bone than a caliber/ bullet weight issue. That being said, I've NEVER had that happen with my 45/70, 400 gr combo lol.
AB

 

[bewsher500]

bit of chewed up grass never hurt anyone!
you've eaten worse it you have ever been to McDonalds!!

 

[Basil12]

bit of chewed up grass never hurt anyone!
you've eaten worse it you have ever been to McDonalds!!

Too right - don't think I've had a burger from there in about 3 years!