Agreed
European Superstate....
- Thread starter digger9523
- Start date
Agreed
It was a stupid thing to say - I withdraw it and apologise
For that amazing honesty - have you thought of joining a political leadership race - you would have considerable appeal over current candidates !
deerhunter270
Well-Known Member
Not all of us want to stay in the EU or independence
Democracy is not a word the nationalists understand
Hayduke
Well-Known Member
Chaps, whatever way you voted, this cannot be good.
The UK losses it's AAA credit rating, this means the worlds financial markets have lost faith and do not trust the UK to pay its debts. For regular people, it's just the same as being 'Blacklisted' by a credit reference agency, that means you have to pay significantly more for loans. For the UK it means that the £1.7 Trillion pound debt interest is set to rocket, and more of our money to service it.
And in fairly short order we will have a Queen with a very diminished Kingdom as Scotland, and Gibraltar take the quickest route to independence/ the EU. Neither U nor K?
The UK losses it's AAA credit rating, this means the worlds financial markets have lost faith and do not trust the UK to pay its debts. For regular people, it's just the same as being 'Blacklisted' by a credit reference agency, that means you have to pay significantly more for loans. For the UK it means that the £1.7 Trillion pound debt interest is set to rocket, and more of our money to service it.
And in fairly short order we will have a Queen with a very diminished Kingdom as Scotland, and Gibraltar take the quickest route to independence/ the EU. Neither U nor K?
Thank you for your honesty.
2130martin
Well-Known Member
Slipping from AAA to AA rating is hardly being blacklisted,its as a result of the instaility currently,when it settles down we will likely become AAA again.
AA is probably higher rating than Scotland or Gibraltar will be when they become Independent States.......
Monkey Spanker
Well-Known Member
So..... It's a matter of a couple of working days and we've dropped from AAA to AA. This is assessed by a group of Americans who now see us as AA What this equates to is:
An obligor rated 'AA' has very strong capacity to meet its financial commitments. It differs from the highest-rated obligors only to a small degree.
Hayduke, are you by any chance related to 'Chicken Little'?
MS
Or me may flourish without the constraints of EU regulations and drive forward to a bright new future. Stock markets are by their nature conservative and neophobic. They hate uncertainty and are currently in the middle of a massive hissy fit.
The only thing any of them can say is that they don't know what will happen, positive or negative.
Here's a few questions that everyone will want to know the answer to.
How much is Scotland's part of the funds that go to the EU via the UK's contribution?
How much does Scotland get back via grants?
If Scotland does join the EU what will the figures be then?
How much is Scotland's part of the funds that go to the EU via the UK's contribution?
How much does Scotland get back via grants?
If Scotland does join the EU what will the figures be then?
That's not quite how the credit rating agencies work.
Have a look at this list: List of countries by credit rating - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Who else has AA rating? Belgium and France for a start. The world's financial markets clearly trust them to pay their debts, and I doubt they have been 'Blacklisted' either.
You'd have to ask how Italy, Ireland and Greece even survive!
Oh, and any chance of stopping this "Neither U nor K" thing you're now putting in every post? It's really not that funny.
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2130martin
Well-Known Member
Nicola Sturgeon wants to remain ie keep the UK membership so,thats £350,000,000 per week.....
mchughcb
Well-Known Member
Are you sure on the credentials of the story lol! Also with regards to credit ratings AA is not exactly bad from the same guys that gave Lehman brothers the rating before they crashed. The financial panic in the last couple of days shows lemmings have steely resolve compared to bankers.
Matt Roberts
Well-Known Member
Irrespective of whether you were in it out - we are where we are. What the country needs now is the kind of drive and enthusiasm Daniel Hannan shows here.
I think the SNPs energy would be better focused accepting the democratic decision of the U.K. and working for a common goal than pursuing political opportunism. They are so blinkered by their hate for the tories they can't see the wood for trees.
As for the ratings agencies they've got a long way to go to get their pre-CDO reputation back, they're worse that the election pollsters for heavens sake!
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Nice, but unlikely
In 2015 the UK's gross payment to the EU was £17.8bn, but after the rebate that is reduced down to a net payment of £12.9bn.
It's fairly safe to assume that the EU would base Scotland's net contribution on a per capita proportion of the total UK number.
In 2015 the UK population was estimated at 65.1m, with Scotland accounting for 8% of that (5.4m people).
On that basis the net contribution from Scotland to the EU as a new member state would be around £1.032bn per year.
To give an idea of what this amounts to, in 2016-17 the draft budget for the Scottish Government totalled £28.446bn, so the EU contribution would roughly equate to 3.6% of the current annual budget. Of course there is some double counting in here, since the money Scotland receives at the moment is probably net of the EU contribution by the UK government, but hopefully it gives an idea of the rough scale of things? Against that one might argue that, with the U.K. now out of the EU, the chances of Scotland securing a rebate are much lower than back in 2014, when Scotland would simply have been joining the EU as a new country that was now independent from an existing member state. Also unlikely is the chance of Scotland continuing with the same level of existing CAP payments and without the 10-year phase-in that other recently acceded countries have had to accept.
£1.032bn is about twice what the Scottish Government currently spends on Rural Affairs, Food and the Environment, a third of what they spend on Education and Lifelong Learning, and a fifth of what they raise each year in Income tax.
http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0049/00491140.pdf
Doubtless Alec Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon will avoid "showing the maths" for as long as they can.
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countrryboy
Well-Known Member
U really are a mine of info willie. Cheers keep it up
Pre the vote the sun had it that scotland recieves about £20 back for every £1 it costs (how they figured out the costs i've no idea)
I know my area SW scot does get a fair heap of EU cash, plenty gets thrown about related to forestry and fixing up roads for the timber wagons, i know most of my chainsaw tickets have been 50% funded by Eu and the nature reserve has had some fairly hefty cheques for stuff related to eu
I would say scotland does prety well out of EU funding, but it is not free cash and UK has paid it in to the kitty already so in theory that money will still be there plus extra, its just a matter how its handed out.
Some of the grants the nature reserve has had are absolutely ridiculas how much money is floating about out there,talking grants of 5 and 10K, and many of these contractors know it and charge extra money for jobs like that
I also see in the sun today something about an EU army and countries linking together their combined forces and this was held back to after the referendum
Pre the vote the sun had it that scotland recieves about £20 back for every £1 it costs (how they figured out the costs i've no idea)
I know my area SW scot does get a fair heap of EU cash, plenty gets thrown about related to forestry and fixing up roads for the timber wagons, i know most of my chainsaw tickets have been 50% funded by Eu and the nature reserve has had some fairly hefty cheques for stuff related to eu
I would say scotland does prety well out of EU funding, but it is not free cash and UK has paid it in to the kitty already so in theory that money will still be there plus extra, its just a matter how its handed out.
Some of the grants the nature reserve has had are absolutely ridiculas how much money is floating about out there,talking grants of 5 and 10K, and many of these contractors know it and charge extra money for jobs like that
I also see in the sun today something about an EU army and countries linking together their combined forces and this was held back to after the referendum
Thk
I'll do my best
Scotland does do well out of EU funding, but that's not unrelated to the fact that it benefits from the UK rebate. Come independence, Scotland is going to find it hard to argue that the rebate should continue, at least at anything like its current level. Scotland will be seen as a rich contributor nation - good fishing stocks, oil, highly educated population, good standard of living, etc.
Remember back in 2014 there were four key opt-outs that an independent Scotland wanted to keep when it negotiated its EU membership: the Budget Rebate, Eurozone, Justice and Home Affairs, and the Schengen travel area. Much as I admire Nicola Sturgeon's negotiating skills, I doubt even she will be able to retain all of these as a pre-condition of EU membership.
Sadly both sides of the referendum campaign relied heavily on rumour, misinformation and innuendo. There's actually a lot of good information out there if you just make the effort to look for it. That's why it really gets my goat when people apply blanket statements to both Leavers and Remainers - it's nice and simple and makes for a good soundbite, but it's rubbish nonetheless.
Regarding the EU army, some of the story comes from our old friend Jean-Claude Junker's interview last year in the German newspaper Welt am Sonntag: http://www.ipex.eu/IPEXL-WEB/dossier/files/download/082dbcc552a994f70152ab871b4e015a.do
"A joint EU army would show the world that there would never again be a war between EU countries"
This was supported by Germany's defence minister when she said "Our future as Europeans will at some point be with a European army”.
This was barely a year after Nick Clegg (remember him!) said: "This is a dangerous fantasy. The idea that there's going to be a European air force, a European army, it is simply not true."
Then in the Rome declaration last September, Germany, France, Italy and Luxembourg talked of more integration on defence policy: http://www.ipex.eu/IPEXL-WEB/dossier/files/download/082dbcc552a994f70152ab871b4e015a.do
Shortly before the referendum we were then told that plans for a proposal on a European army had been put on hold until after the referendum as it would have been toxic to issue those proposals beforehand.
Now, of course, with the U.K. and its veto nicely out of the way, all bets are off.
I'll do my best
Scotland does do well out of EU funding, but that's not unrelated to the fact that it benefits from the UK rebate. Come independence, Scotland is going to find it hard to argue that the rebate should continue, at least at anything like its current level. Scotland will be seen as a rich contributor nation - good fishing stocks, oil, highly educated population, good standard of living, etc.
Remember back in 2014 there were four key opt-outs that an independent Scotland wanted to keep when it negotiated its EU membership: the Budget Rebate, Eurozone, Justice and Home Affairs, and the Schengen travel area. Much as I admire Nicola Sturgeon's negotiating skills, I doubt even she will be able to retain all of these as a pre-condition of EU membership.
Sadly both sides of the referendum campaign relied heavily on rumour, misinformation and innuendo. There's actually a lot of good information out there if you just make the effort to look for it. That's why it really gets my goat when people apply blanket statements to both Leavers and Remainers - it's nice and simple and makes for a good soundbite, but it's rubbish nonetheless.
Regarding the EU army, some of the story comes from our old friend Jean-Claude Junker's interview last year in the German newspaper Welt am Sonntag: http://www.ipex.eu/IPEXL-WEB/dossier/files/download/082dbcc552a994f70152ab871b4e015a.do
"A joint EU army would show the world that there would never again be a war between EU countries"
This was supported by Germany's defence minister when she said "Our future as Europeans will at some point be with a European army”.
This was barely a year after Nick Clegg (remember him!) said: "This is a dangerous fantasy. The idea that there's going to be a European air force, a European army, it is simply not true."
Then in the Rome declaration last September, Germany, France, Italy and Luxembourg talked of more integration on defence policy: http://www.ipex.eu/IPEXL-WEB/dossier/files/download/082dbcc552a994f70152ab871b4e015a.do
Shortly before the referendum we were then told that plans for a proposal on a European army had been put on hold until after the referendum as it would have been toxic to issue those proposals beforehand.
Now, of course, with the U.K. and its veto nicely out of the way, all bets are off.
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Bandit Country
Well-Known Member
That really made me squirm with embarrassment - and I'm not even Scottish.
The harsh lesson of history is that every time Scotland looks to Europe for help in the endless fight against the perfidious English, the Scots end up getting shafted.Similar threads
