Every rifle in the classifieds is sub MOA?

Stephen86

Well-Known Member
I had an interesting meeting with a chap selling a rifle (and that's as much personal information as i'll disclose) last night.

The sub-moa shooting rifle sounded fantastic and extremely accurate. When I arrived at the gents house and handled said rifle, I again questioned its sub moa accuracy, to be told once again that it shoots fantastic and easily within an inch and he had only just dropped a few reds with it. When I gave the gun a shake and showed him the action was loose and the scope mounts were rattling and told him this gun couldn't achieve moa in a month of sundays, he quickly withdrew saying he hadn't shot the gun in a few months and it must have loosened off (I presume the allen key fairies had been out in force).

Its fair to say the door hit me in the ar$e on the way out.

Anyone else had similar experiences with 'super accurate' rifles they nearly purchased?

Stephen.
 

enfieldspares

Well-Known Member
I've had it the other way around! There used to be a back bedroom RFD, a retired Major, who'd ring you up, ask you to post him one or two Webley, Colt or whatever pistols that you were advertising (after having agreed a "trade" price) and then when it arrived find all sorts of reasons why he'd be happy to offer less than had been previously agreed.

And then takes days to send it back.

Fell for the same thing twice. Apparently he had form for it. But people talk in the trade and the trade then was quite small and people did talk to each other. So the next time he called I simply told him that I was sorry but the pistol he was interested in this time wasn't of he standard that he'd be happy with so to save wasting both our our time I'd not be sending it.
 
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Erik Hamburger

Well-Known Member
I had an interesting meeting with a chap selling a rifle (and that's as much personal information as i'll disclose) last night.

The sub-moa shooting rifle sounded fantastic and extremely accurate. When I arrived at the gents house and handled said rifle, I again questioned its sub moa accuracy, to be told once again that it shoots fantastic and easily within an inch and he had only just dropped a few reds with it. When I gave the gun a shake and showed him the action was loose and the scope mounts were rattling and told him this gun couldn't achieve moa in a month of sundays, he quickly withdrew saying he hadn't shot the gun in a few months and it must have loosened off (I presume the allen key fairies had been out in force).

Its fair to say the door hit me in the ar$e on the way out.

Anyone else had similar experiences with 'super accurate' rifles they nearly purchased?

Stephen.

Sub 1 MOA on a range, from a bench-rest shooting position, is all very nice, but for most UK deer hunting scenario's the accuracy required is around 2-3 MOA at most. The focus ('accuracy') is on the wrong thing. What really matters is finding the deer and getting reasonable close to it - for me that means, typically, 40-60 Yards. As long as my accuracy gets me through my annual test which one landowner insists on, so say a group of no more than 4" from a few different shooting positions at distances from 100-50 Yards, I am quite happy.
 

paul o'

Well-Known Member
If it shoots crap then don't sell it on the SD or you arse is going to be a red dot for all to see in black and white , seen a few guys on here tell the truth ie its fire cracked shot out needs sorting etc ,thats the best way to sell a rifle :thumb: but try to pull the wool over the truth and it will come out in three rounds :doh: i don't understand why a seller would go out of there way to **** folk off . :cuckoo:
 

VSS

Well-Known Member
I doubt I could consistently shoot 1moa, even if the rifle were capable of it. So I'd never really know whether the advert had been honest or not!
 

M275

Well-Known Member
Having owned many "previously cherished" rifles over the years I'd say they ranged from 1 MoA to 4 MoA, with an average around 2 MoA. With a bit of load experimentation most end up around 1.5 MoA. I've not found the visible state of the bore to relate directly to the accuracy, pits and roughness don't seem to have an effect, but an eroded throat sometimes does. Also the accuracy does seem to drop off as the calibre increases, I've never seen anything like 1 MoA groups from a .375 H&H.
 

JTO

Well-Known Member
I think the only way to avoid quarrels is for the seller to shoot a group in front of the prospective buyer.
 

VSS

Well-Known Member
I think the only way to avoid quarrels is for the seller to shoot a group in front of the prospective buyer.

Agreed.
In fact, I think this would be best even where the vendor hasn't made any claims about sub moa accuracy.
 

antsa

Well-Known Member
I think that one could expect every modern, well-maintained hunting rifle in the calibres that the majority of us use, to shoot sub MOA - in controlled conditions off the bench, bipod and bags in little or no wind and with premium or customised ammunition. All of mine certainly do.

Out in the bush? That's another story.

Cheers
 

Alantoo

Well-Known Member
I have been going to a railway tunnel range twice a month-ish for a couple of years and have witnessed very few people (or rifles) consistently shooting sub MOA groups in that time.

Maybe those who can do it "all day long" don't practice in public?

Alan
 

jb1

Well-Known Member
And the other side of the story,
You get someone come round, picking fault with a second-hand rifle that's being a few scars from being used, lists all the changes that they want to carry out. Like barrel shortening,then obviously having it screwcut again (you don't say) dent removal the list went on. And then to add insult knocking the price by another 50%saying a brand knew one was not as much as I was asking for.
Numpty had no idea what he was buying.
Thanks for popping round sir, and can I suggest you do a little research prior to offering silly prices, it turned put he was a part time RFD.

On his way out I thanked him for being so entertaining. And if the chaps on here who popped round and offered me 250 for a Ruger77/17 all weather laminated, I'm still laughing
 

Erik Hamburger

Well-Known Member
I have been going to a railway tunnel range twice a month-ish for a couple of years and have witnessed very few people (or rifles) consistently shooting sub MOA groups in that time.

Maybe those who can do it "all day long" don't practice in public?

Alan

Yes Alan that is also my experience. When there was still a North Cotswolds DMG (Now dissolved...) we had a Range day at Corinium and the 'shooting competition' was basically the DSC1 shooting test. About HALF of the competitors (all very experienced deer stalkers, some equipped with top-end rifles and premium scopes...) failed it.
 

jon2

Well-Known Member
I have been going to a railway tunnel range twice a month-ish for a couple of years and have witnessed very few people (or rifles) consistently shooting sub MOA groups in that time.

Maybe those who can do it "all day long" don't practice in public?

Alan


My opinion is that accuracy is exaggerated. Shoot 5 x 5 round groups and what is the average group size. It would make for interesting viewing.
 

Jagare

Well-Known Member
All my rifles shoot 5mm groups and i can shoot these groups off hand at 100 mtrs. I'm also very good looking and have a large penis.:fib:
 

bobjs

Well-Known Member
yep.

my br shoots 6mm 1 hole groups all day long

the 2x20 tac’s do the same in .204 of an1” 1hole groups all the time.

i would like any buyer to test fire any rifle i have for sale sale and i think in some of my adds i have stated any rfd inspecrption is welcome and they can come and test fire it before the part with any cash,

i cannot shoot sub moa and have never done so that’s that cleared up.....they do what i need them to with no issues so why would i say they do if i have never tried.

bob.
 
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1066

Well-Known Member
My opinion is that accuracy is exaggerated. Shoot 5 x 5 round groups and what is the average group size. It would make for interesting viewing.

Totally agree - seldom see consecutive 5 shot groups on the same sheet of paper much under 1 moa - There's usually the "one I pulled" "the cold barrel shot" etc. About a hundred yards, turns out to be nearer eighty when actually measured, clover leaf or "bullet on bullet" turns out to be nearer an inch and a half...We've all got phones with cameras now - No photo - it didn't happen.
 

ChesterP

Well-Known Member
There's plenty of one to three shot "moa" rifles and riflemen out there ;)

Not quite as many 5 to 7 shot.....
 
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