Expanding ammo, new legislation. Some questions.

[RM100]

On the BASC website, it says expanding ammo reverts to Sec 1 from May 2nd, 2017.

I currently have FAC for target ammo only and was about to go through the prolonged variation process.

Does it mean that from 2nd May onwards, people like me (who only have target ammo on FAC) can freely buy expanding ammo and shoot deer without seeking a variation?

 

[palmer_mike]

On the BASC website, it says expanding ammo reverts to Sec 1 from May 2nd, 2017.

I currently have FAC for target ammo only and was about to go through the prolonged variation process.

Does it mean that from 2nd May onwards, people like me (who only have target ammo on FAC) can freely buy expanding ammo and shoot deer without seeking a variation?

Buy, possibly. Use on deer, not unless your rifle is conditioned for such

 

[RM100]

What do you mean conditioned? Its a rifle that will fire the correct round at he correct animal.

 

[topscots1]

The certificate must state for use in shooting deer and any other lawfull quarry or words to that effect. As yours will say for use on a specifice club.

 

[flying felix]

What do you mean conditioned? Its a rifle that will fire the correct round at he correct animal.

A condition along the lines of:

" the rifle serial no xxxxxx can be used over land on which the certificate has permission to shoot over for the purposes of deer stalking, vermin control or AOLQ" actual wording may vary, but states that you can shoot over land, and shoot at living things as opposed to targets.

 

[takbok]

What do you mean conditioned? Its a rifle that will fire the correct round at he correct animal.

Your FAC still needs to be changed to allow hunting.

 

[Dalua]

First, I think it's right to say that no-one currently has 'target ammo only' on their FAC. FAC-holders are certificated to own S1 ammuntion in the specified chamberings. Some FAC-holders are additionally authorised to buy/own/use (for, and in conncection with specified purposes) expanding ammuntion currently categorised under S5 as prohibited. This includes the bullets alone, as well as complete rounds.

My understanding is therefore that once the expanding ammuntion/bullets which are currently categorised as prohibited under S5 is removed from that category, all FAC-holders will be allowed to possess the former-S5 ammunition in the chamberings they're allowed to possess - and of course, former-S5 bullets in any caliblre they like - as these will be entirely uncontrolled just as non-S5-bullets are currently.

Second, to shoot a deer you would need a rifle on your FAC that was not conditioned in such a way as to prevent you lawfully from doing so.

Third, changes in conditions are not what we'd normally consider 'a variation': which usually means a change in the actual firearms held, and is applied for using the prescribed forms.

 

[bowji john]

The way I understand it - you may purchase expanding ammo in the calibers you have permission to hold

That does not entitle you automatically to use them in the field (on game) as to get permission to do that you need to demonstrate permitted access to suitable land and might well find additional controls imposed (closed ticket etc etc)

That would require a change to the conditions of your FAC

I'm new to UK laws so could be wrong

j

 

[Heym SR20]

So will it also mean that unloaded expanding bullets won't count in your ammunition allowance.

 

[ashray]

as far as i have been told when s5 become as s1 you can hold as many as you want bullet wise but once the bullets are loaded into live rounds then they become part of your allowance.so loaded rounds must not exceed your allowed amount but just bullets you can keep as many as you want .

 

[JTO]

What do you mean conditioned? Its a rifle that will fire the correct round at he correct animal.

This has got to be a windup.

 

[TA6319]

I would not be so sure that it is

 

[Dalua]

This has got to be a windup.

There are, as we've seen on another thread https://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk/showthread.php/132583-Condition-wording-again!-Sorry , folk who believe that because the FAC implicitly authroises the possession and use of the firearms for any lawful activity, discretionary conditions on FACs must be restrictive - meaning that unless they say the rifle may be used only for particular activity/s, its use is implicitly permitted for any lawful activity.

It was suggests there that BASC might be consulted - I wonder whether anyone has done so?

 

[JTO]

folk who believe that because the FAC implicitly authroises the possession and use of the firearms for any lawful activity, discretionary conditions on FACs must be restrictive - meaning that unless they say the rifle may be used only for particular activity/s, its use is implicitly permitted for any lawful activity

I've never heard of anyone with a weapon conditioned 'for any lawful activity'.

 

[Sinistral]

On the BASC website, it says expanding ammo reverts to Sec 1 from May 2nd, 2017.

I currently have FAC for target ammo only and was about to go through the prolonged variation process.

Does it mean that from 2nd May onwards, people like me (who only have target ammo on FAC) can freely buy expanding ammo and shoot deer without seeking a variation?

Two separate questions, here.

The answer to the first is likely to be YES, but SP Expanding isn't as accurate as HPBTM so the relaxation of restrictions is unlikely to be of much use to "Target Shooters" so of no benefit.

The answer to the second is NO without a Variation for change of use on your rifle. You (and it) are restricted to 'Approved Ranges' and are not allowed to use your TR in the field for quarry use, without a formal application for a variation.

 

[bowji john]

Two separate questions, here.

The answer to the first is likely to be YES, but SP Expanding isn't as accurate as HPBTM so the relaxation of restrictions is unlikely to be of much use to "Target Shooters" so of no benefit.

The answer to the second is NO without a Variation for change of use on your rifle. You (and it) are restricted to 'Approved Ranges' and are not allowed to use your TR in the field for quarry use, without a formal application for a variation.

further to the above

A lot of ranges do not allow expanding ammo to be used - so it is not clear to me what advantage these changes present to the target shooter

 

[Yorkie]

further to the above

A lot of ranges do not allow expanding ammo to be used - so it is not clear to me what advantage these changes present to the target shooter

Hi.
I keep reading of these Ranges that do not allow expanding Ammo. Where are they? I have never come across one and I have shot at a few. I am not looking to be argumentative, I am genuinely curious.

Yorkie.

 

[JTO]

Hi.
I keep reading of these Ranges that do not allow expanding Ammo. Where are they? I have never come across one and I have shot at a few. I am not looking to be argumentative, I am genuinely curious.

Yorkie.

I think ranges do have a rule prohibiting expanding ammunition, but it is never enforced.

 

[bowji john]

Hi.
I keep reading of these Ranges that do not allow expanding Ammo. Where are they? I have never come across one and I have shot at a few. I am not looking to be argumentative, I am genuinely curious.

Yorkie.

We are not allowed to use them at our indoor range in Newquay, nor RAF St Morgan nor at Millpool

I know that is hardly all the ranges in the UK but of all those that I get to use - there seems a common theme of they being frowned upon at least

I'd be interested to know whether it is just us down in Cornwall

I have my own 100 - 150 m 'range' at home but not everyone lives on a farm

 

[Highlandsjohn]

We are not allowed to use them at our indoor range in Newquay, nor RAF St Morgan nor at Millpool

I know that is hardly all the ranges in the UK but of all those that I get to use - there seems a common theme of they being frowned upon at least

I'd be interested to know whether it is just us down in Cornwall

I have my own 100 - 150 m 'range' at home but not everyone lives on a farm

Same up here is the rule. However if we approach the RO to test fire a few stalking rounds permission is usually given.