Expanding ammunition in large calibers - dangerous game

[Turkish]

Could any of the more adventurous Big/Dangerous game caliber rifle holders please cast some light onto a question that was raised recently.

With the changes in legislation covering expanding ammunition - Sec. 5 - having changed for general live game shooting, has the restriction in being able to buy/ hold expanding ammunition for large calibers changed.

Specifically, the restriction imposed on dangerous game calibers like 9.3 x 62 and above - in the sense that you would be able to buy solid/ non expanding ammunition for zeroing and range use, but not expanding. I remember coming across this some years ago when a friend wanted to take that caliber to Africa, but had to buy his expanding ammunition out there, as the restriction would not allow for purchase here.

The question has been risen again, as another friend wants to buy a .416 caliber for Africa. I have assumed the same applies, but as the HOGP has now been superseded, I am not so sure.

Also, how do you stand as a member of the NRA if you wanted to zero - at say, Bisley - with a HME caliber ? would BSRC be your only choice...................?

Your advice would be appreciated.

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

Anyone can buy expanding bullets for reloading in any calibre without any proof of ID or rifle ownership
Your ammunition (made up full rounds) allowance is a distinctly personal affair with FEO using the wheel of fortune to decide how many you can have.

However owners of DG calibres are frequently restricted to only using them overseas or only zeroing with non expanding ammunition for some reason which truly boggles the mind.

The HME regs are based purely on energy rather than any specific calibre
Range orders on MOD ranges will often include limits on 338 and above
Nothing to stop you testing and practicing on private ground with appropriate backstop

Be aware big large lumps of (often steel encased) lead need considerably more material to stop them
Having tested a 416 in the field I noted the huge furrows caused by the bullets that went for several metres into the rising clay pasture that a higher velocity, lower weight class would have just gone straight in or broken up

 

[CarlW]

I have .500NE and .375H&H for use abroad only. They let me hold 250 loaded rounds of each calibre (in solid and/or expanding). I can, of course, also hold as many bullets (expanding or otherwise) for home-loading. Both rifles are also conditioned so that I can zero, load-develop and practise with them on "a suitable range" or on "appropriate land over which I have permission" in the UK. I treat this as meaning "anywhere that I think it is safe to do so in Scotland". I can only use non-expanding ammunition for this in the UK (which is ridiculous) but I have never bothered to make an issue out of it. I have a great relationship with my FEO and don't care enough to fall out.

Hope this helps.

Kind regards,

Carl

 

[Orion]

I have 9.3x62 and can use in the UK under the same condition as any of my rifles - deer, vermin, any other lawful quarry etc.

Check out 13.37 HOG for use of ‘overseas’ calibres in the UK.

 

[deerstalker.308]

I have 9.3x62 and can use in the UK under the same condition as any of my rifles - deer, vermin, any other lawful quarry etc.

Likewise with .375h&h, open for AOLQ

 

[25 Sharps]

Could any of the more adventurous Big/Dangerous game caliber rifle holders please cast some light onto a question that was raised recently.

With the changes in legislation covering expanding ammunition - Sec. 5 - having changed for general live game shooting, has the restriction in being able to buy/ hold expanding ammunition for large calibers changed.

Specifically, the restriction imposed on dangerous game calibers like 9.3 x 62 and above - in the sense that you would be able to buy solid/ non expanding ammunition for zeroing and range use, but not expanding. I remember coming across this some years ago when a friend wanted to take that caliber to Africa, but had to buy his expanding ammunition out there, as the restriction would not allow for purchase here.

The question has been risen again, as another friend wants to buy a .416 caliber for Africa. I have assumed the same applies, but as the HOGP has now been superseded, I am not so sure.

Also, how do you stand as a member of the NRA if you wanted to zero - at say, Bisley - with a HME caliber ? would BSRC be your only choice...................?

Your advice would be appreciated.

HME up to a level is acceptable at Bisley but you would need a safe shooter card for such, and there are absolute muzzle energy and velocity limits, as Ed said .338 calibre is not acceptable but .416 would be if within the other limits

 

[Hanechdene]

Likewise 375 open certificate for deer and AOLQ

 

[Loki]

Hi

My .375H&H is for 'shooting deer and any other lawfulquarry and zeroing-practice on ranges and land over which holder has lawful authority to shoot'.
Possession - 500rds; nowt about expanding/non-expanding....

L

 

[reiver]

My Slot for a 9.3 x62 barrel and ammo is for stalking and Aolq
Just need to find a one now

 

[Turkish]

Thanks for the replies.
Again, it shows the lottery of constabularies as to what you get still exists.

This will be a Thames Valley application. I will let you know how he gets on.

 

[Orion]

A well crafted accompanying letter with references to the the relevant sections of HOG will help. It’s also worth pointing out the necessity of U.K. use for zeroing, load development and, most importantly, practice and familiarisation with the rifle and ammunition. Would they condone less humane treatment of animals abroad compared to those in the U.K.?

From there it may be possible to have the rifle conditioned in exactly the same way as others are used over here.

Good luck with it.

 

[09mutley05]

I have a 9.3x62 barrel on order for deer and AOLQ Also a .45-70 for target, deer and AOLQ both with exspanding ammo, just need to source some components for the 9.3x62

 

[Hanechdene]

I said that I wanted it for DG and for shooting boar, red and Sika stags.

A friend applied for one stating only DG and therefore only allowed to use it for zeroing in the UK

 

[zambezi]

My FEO has granted to me a very modest allowance for expanding and non-expanding .375 ammunition. The non-expanding ammunition may be used in the UK for zeroing my .375 prior to overseas usage of the rifle. The expanding ammunition may not be used in the UK and the rifle may not be used on live quarry in this country. As CarlW and Edinburgh Rifles have already stated, any distinction between expanding and non-expanding ammunition seems to be a legacy interpretation of the law and it is hard to understand what logical basis exists for such a position. That I have not been granted .375 AOLQ automatically is fine by me. It shows proportional and prudent licence management.

I have a good relationship with the FEO and have engaged with her in writing and on the telephone. Per the Firearms Guidance below, it is a fair prerequisite that the FEO is satisfied that the FAC holder is competent using the [higher energy, DG] calibre before including UK usage. The FEO set two reasonable criteria for the possible addition of the .375 to the AOLQ status:

1) Demonstrate verified competence with the .375 calibre on a UK range facility
2) Complete a Plains Game safari in which the range performance demonstarted above has translated into field effectiveness

I have completed #1 above and am in the process of booking a safari in the Limpopo region in March. A buffalo is on the menu. With those two criteria met, I believe the FEO will accord to my .375 the same UK AOLQ status which has already been applied to my other rifles.

 

[Orion]

Sounds to me that the FEO is engaged in a bit of control freakery.

 

[CarlW]

Just out of interest, why do any of you WANT to use a .375 or .500 or whatever on UK game? . Is it just to keep yourself familiar with the rifles or is there some other reason? I shoot mine a lot (at my place in Moz) but, if I didn't need to, I wouldn't. They are not pleasant compared to the usual UK calibres. .

Kind regards,

Carl

 

[VSS]

Just out of interest, why do any of you WANT to use a .375 or .500 or whatever on UK game? . Is it just to keep yourself familiar with the rifles or is there some other reason? I shoot mine a lot (at my place in Moz) but, if I didn't need to, I wouldn't. They are not pleasant compared to the usual UK calibres. .

Kind regards,

Carl

Because people WANT the biggest they can possibly get, regardless of how pleasant it is to shoot, so they can "casually" mention it on sites like this, in the hope that everyone else will be impressed

 

[SpikeD]

As a member of the Express Rifle Association we shoot all manner of "dangerous game" calibers at our regular meetings at Minsterley. I have a double in .375 H&H and a Blaser in .416" Remington magnum. We shoot them because we enjoy them, particularly the more unusual such as the old blackpowder .400's .450's .500" etc. You soon acclimatize to the bigger rounds, it's certainly not to "impress" anyone, there's a lot of history behind the rounds and indeed many of the rifles that fellow members shoot.
Impressive is the 6 pounder Napoleonic cannon that one member has and until recently could have shot this with ball until the Police had a chat with him and asked if he could restrict it to blank salutes only just in case he decided to lay siege to the local town...
The Home Office Guidance quoted in the thread is obsolete since the removal of expanding from S5 to S1 so the restriction clause on expanding ammunition has no basis in law. Remember the Home Office guidance document is just guidance for the Police on how to enact the various Firearms acts, it is not a statutory instrument. HME rules are purely a local regulation imposed by the company managing the various military ranges it's not law. The challenge is that if you only use military ranges you need to comply with it to demonstrate to the Police that you comply with it as part of your good reason to possess rifles that exceed the HME.
In terms of using such rifles in the UK the guidance is there to help the Police understand what calibers are suitable, in law there are minimum velocity / energy requirements, there are no maximum but calibers designed for big game will raise questions when asked for against deer etc. The onus is on you to stipulate why you want that particular caliber. For target shooting that in itself is good reason provided you can demonstrate that you have somewhere certified for that caliber.

 

[Orion]

Because people WANT the biggest they can possibly get, regardless of how pleasant it is to shoot, so they can "casually" mention it on sites like this, in the hope that everyone else will be impressed

Or maybe, just maybe, it’s as per post #11.

 

[Dalua]

As CarlW and Edinburgh Rifles have already stated, any distinction between expanding and non-expanding ammunition seems to be a legacy interpretation of the law...

I think this is right: from memory the judgement from which the prohibition of expanding DG stuff for use in the UK stemmed was based on sporting expanding bullets being S5 prohibited ammunition - which they ain't any more.