F C leases

wadashot

Account Suspended
#1
Just had some leases sent through today from the Forestry Commission as some others may have done.

I have been looking through them and wanted to know what others thought about them, especially the prices, here is an example.

Tay forest district. Offering stalking 835 hectares, approx 1830 acres for Red, Fallow, and Roe over a 12 month period.

These are the 3 year average culls,

2 Stags, 1 Hind, 1 Calf, 35 Roe Bucks, 29 Roe Does, 18 Roe kids, 5 Fallow bucks 4 Fallow does and 3 Fallow fawns.

The cull needed for the coming season is on a similar par.

The price for this lease is expected to be in the region of £6000 + vat =around £7000, at this price this works out at around £3.82 per acre.
I think that this is a liitle too expensive and would work out to be over a £1000 per gun with 6 members.

I think with the fact that the commission are making it mandatory this year to have your level 2 to shoot on their ground, I reckon they should struggle to achieve this kind of revenue.

I am just interested as to who would willingly pay this kind of money and why.?
Last year I tendered for some Sika ground off them in the borders which was about 600 acres, my bid was about £1200 inc vat if i remember right, but had it on pretty good authority that there were offers in excess of £6000 for the same bit. :???:

wadashot
 

Muntiacus

Well-Known Member
#3
Including fawns thats £71.42 per head shot.
When I look at what i've been charged for stalking in Scotland thats not bad, if I had the capital available it would be a consideration.
 

JAYB

Administrator
Site Staff
#4
600 acres bids in excess of £6000, £10 an acre what needs culling there, Unicorns? Pretty soon the prices for the leases plus the price of getting the required qualification to stalk, is going to put this game out of reach to a lot of ordinary folk. Lets hope that this price is in the minority.

John
 

geoshot

Well-Known Member
#5
Way too expensive for the real world, sadly a few city boys will pay for it out of the ridiculous bonuses they get for ruining our pension funds and the FC will think all is well. Sometimes I think there is no hope for the like of us.
 
#6
Whats worse, and I dont think folk look at this, is this land belongs to US, the FC is entrusted to maintain and protect the Forests for the future.

I tell you what, let them employ Rangers to look after it that way we know our taxes are being well spent..not!

It is the way of things now im afraid a dreadful shame it is. :cry:
 

sikamalc

Administrator
Site Staff
#7
Ahhh good old FC. What you have to watch is that they sometimes shoot the crap out of it (at night) and then let it out to someone. And then the only deer you see is the one with the flack jacket and the tin helmet :lol:

The price they are asking is a rediculous amount of money. Here is where the prices are being hiked up guys. Would any of you pay that kind of money :???:
 

Fester

Well-Known Member
#8
Hello sikamalc :D
Would i heck pay that sort of money :eek:

The prices they want for that is outrite rediculous gents.
Like Sikamalc said the ground will most probably of been shot to hell at night by the FC then let out for some idiot willing to pay that sort of money to try & shoot it in the day.
I would like to know where the FC got these prices from :eek:
 

JH83

Well-Known Member
#9
Not having any leased stalking I have no idea how much a bit like that is really worth, can anyone give me a guideline? It does seem very dear (no pun intended).

I have some free stalking and take days as a client which suits at the moment, but I have my ear to the ground for any decent stalking in my home area.

James.
 

JAYB

Administrator
Site Staff
#10
How this for timing, my friend, a farmer has just had a visit from the FC, they wanted to talk about boundaries he said. When he arrived he told my pal that the boundaries were all in order but, they are desperate for land for planting hardwoods and were quite willing, keen, to buy his farm everything, house, outbuildings everything except the stock.

He was told very firmly no, for which I am very grateful, I could have lost a good few hundred acres of shooting there!

John
 

wadashot

Account Suspended
#11
Yes guys,

These are the comments that I expected, absolutely ridiculous.

JAYB, Thank that friend of yours for saying `NO` :D

Muntiacus, You say, £71.42 per head, what you have to remember is that the price of the stalking on offer is the minimum expected and as geoshot says, some city slicker could and would pay for this out of their bonuses. :???:

Sikamalc, you are right, this is where the over inflated prices must be coming from.

£1.00 per acre is a fair price in my eyes, especially if it`s mostly rideline or deer glade stalking, if it`s got restocked areas on, then i would pay a bit more.

wadashot
 

sikamalc

Administrator
Site Staff
#12
Hi Wadders,

I have personally never leased any land from the FC, I have been fortunate through hard work and more than a few years made contacts, who are land agents and also a good circle of friends to be able to negotaite a fair price on estates that suits both parties, whilst managing the deer in a sustainable and ethical way.

I know a few people who have in the recent past leased land from FC, in particular in Scotland. Up until about 5 years ago the price asked by the FC was about £4 to £6 an acre, if my memeory serves me correct, with Level 1 required and aat the time they were also beggining to ask for Level 2.

The price quoted in this thread is a fools price, but I have no doubt that someone will gladly pay it. NOT me though. As a matter of interest the area of SE England where I live there is to my knowledge only 1 FC stalker covering Kent and parts of Sussex. The shooting Times ran an advert last year for a lease on a plot of land that is infested with Wild Boar on the Kent/Sussex border. This advert was for wing shooting only, and when I inquired about the Wild Boar and Deer management, the FC told me that they do not let any stalking at all.

Could be interesting me thinks, lots of dogs, Wild Boar, shotguns Hmmmm!
For anyone considering letting FC land, I would certainly ask the question about who, when and how it had been managed, and also if a night licence had ever been issued on the area.

Its a pity in a way that we do not have regulated state owned land like the states, after all as someone has already pointed out the land the FC has, was the tax payers. ;)
 

Thar

Well-Known Member
#13
sikamalc said:
Its a pity in a way that we do not have regulated state owned land like the states, after all as someone has already pointed out the land the FC has, was the tax payers. ;)
This is one thing that gets me, else were in the world state owned land can be hunted on by all, it is only in the UK that the commoner has to pay twice to hunt on his own land. You can run, walk, cycle, horse ride ect ect on FC land for free. :(

I am not for uncontrolled access but so long as you have suitable qualifications (Level 1 or 2 if you must) then you should be able to go into a ballot for a block without charge. That way you would have sport for all and not just the rich and connected. (PS I am not poor and have my own land for the record. ;) )

It is about time some MP put a private members bill forward, with the left wing slant on Scottish politics it might just get though if pushed by the BASC ect. a knock on would be a fall in lease prices on private forestry blocks. :D

Best rgds

Thar
 

wadashot

Account Suspended
#15
Malcom,

I was in a syndicate on land owned by the commission, sorry, "us" the tax payer, a lot of years ago now and personally it was a very good one to be honest as there were 6 members paying about £600 each.

In the year that I was on it i had my fair share of deer off it and could go as often as i liked with only 2 or 3 members going regular, with the others possibly keeping it on for the sake of their FACs, so from my point of veiw on there, I had only good experiences, although I do appreciate there not all the same.

I reckon having state owned land where stalkers can go like they do in the states although is a really good idea we all know it will never happen simply because we would not be trusted by the goverment:???: level 2 or not.

Dickie, BASC do already run stalking schemes on commission ground, but are expensive and is normally shot over ground that is dead of deer. They have some ground near where i was working in Scotland and was told of many a disapointing experience as the land was void of deer.

wadashot
 

1995rs

Well-Known Member
#16
Doesnt sound that bad, it works out at £70 per head, FC are asking £100 per head plus vat now. I would much rather stalk in Perthshire over bandit country any day of the week.Even worse you could join a Dumfrieshire syndicate and pay £800 per rifle with 12 syndicate members which includes rangers that come and spoil your stalks to check what safety kit you are carrying.
 

Schiehallion

Well-Known Member
#17
Doesnt sound that bad, it works out at £70 per head, FC are asking £100 per head plus vat now. I would much rather stalk in Perthshire over bandit country any day of the week.Even worse you could join a Dumfrieshire syndicate and pay £800 per rifle with 12 syndicate members which includes rangers that come and spoil your stalks to check what safety kit you are carrying.
Quite right 1995rs.
Theres syndicate ground and then theres decent syndicate ground.
The whole idea in the tendering process is that you are hopefully skilled enough to get an impression of what sort of deer numbers there are on the ground by visiting it. You hear many people spouting " oh, I hear that a pals uncles friend told his neighbour that the FC shoot all the deer with a lamp and then lease it out". If so, don't tender. Or as you say, join one of the hundreds of Borders or southwest Scotland syndicates with a handful of roe on them where many members are happy to pay their £600 and shoot 3 roe a year. Its horses for courses I say.
But SSSSHHHHHHH ...don,t tell everybody.
S.
 

Range Master

Well-Known Member
#18
Oh I agree its so expensive ,someone lucky enough to get the lease, oh where can i get syndicate members well obviously here,how much? how many stalkers?how many acres?cull,who has advertised stalking ?have you actually got the forest lease ???,if someone says must be applying for DMQ2 thats forestry commission you should know all that.It isnt the forestry commission thats in the wrong they stick to a guide price,if you want to take there offer thats up to you,If it wasnt for the forestry commission alot of people would not be stalking and that is true, Every forestry commission stalker I have met has been top stalkers,forget the lamping ect they are the best and very good at what they do.
 

sikamalc

Administrator
Site Staff
#19
Not questioning forestry rangers, its the price being offered or expected which in many instances is very inflated. Dont forget anyone undertaking a lease and stalking on FC land, you are doing their job for them! and they are getting paid for it as well. So to expect a ridiculous price for a lease is just greedy.

Any lease holder should be judged on their experience, and the fact that they can carry out the job in a professional, ethical way, not, as I have said before---------- by the size of their wallet or bank account.
 

Orion

Well-Known Member
#20
Doesnt sound that bad, it works out at £70 per head, FC are asking £100 per head plus vat now.
Did you realise that the previous posts were made nearly 3 years ago? Inflation and the popularity of stalking have probably had an effect on pricing as noted in some of the other threads regarding FC leases.
 

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