FAQ: Do I have an Open or Closed Certificate?

[dave_4]

There was a question like this on page one but couldn’t find an answer.
I have an open firearms license, can my friend shoot his fac air rifle (with a closed license) with me on my permission?
I can’t see it as any different to when I would go without a license stalking with the guides rifle on his land.
Thanks, Dave

 

[Trickyd66]

There was a question like this on page one but couldn’t find an answer.
I have an open firearms license, can my friend shoot his fac air rifle (with a closed license) with me on my permission?
I can’t see it as any different to when I would go without a license stalking with the guides rifle on his land.
Thanks, Dave

Short answer... no

 

[Dalua]

Short answer... no

Might it depend on whether the friend also has permission to shoot on that ground, and also whether the ground is actually already 'cleared' for some calibre or other which is more-powerful than the chap's FAC airgun?

 

[SimpleSimon]

There was a question like this on page one but couldn’t find an answer.
I have an open firearms license, can my friend shoot his fac air rifle (with a closed license) with me on my permission?
I can’t see it as any different to when I would go without a license stalking with the guides rifle on his land.
Thanks, Dave

It makes no difference if you're with him or not, if your land is "deemed suitable by the chief... blah blah blah" then he can shoot his air rifle there, if not then he can't.

However, if it's not cleared he CAN use a rifle of yours under your supervision.
Make sense? Of course it doesn't, but that's the way it is

 

[chriswjx]

I can’t see it as any different to when I would go without a license stalking with the guides rifle on his land.
Thanks, Dave

The difference there is that he is using HIS rifle on YOUR ground, whilst with your guide, you were using HIS rifle on HIS ground.

 

[dave_4]

It makes no difference if you're with him or not, if your land is "deemed suitable by the chief... blah blah blah" then he can shoot his air rifle there, if not then he can't.

However, if it's not cleared he CAN use a rifle of yours under your supervision.
Make sense? Of course it doesn't, but that's the way it is

Ah, ok. So the land is cleared for .243 regardless of my open license, so his fac air rifle would fall under that.
But if it wasn’t he couldn’t use his air rifle but he could use my centre fire? Makes perfect sense

 

[FeckArseIndustries]

Hello,
So if you have a certificate that is closed to certain land for say .243 and you get permission from an other land owner for ie fox, deer. Do you have to re apply or just inform the flo, with evidence of permission, it seems alot of people have hassle with flo's. Any body used B.A.S.C to fight there limitations.

Zero consistency across the board. Utterly random, feelings based system. Utter shite.

Permission slips from the local PD to go hunting/shooting........SCARY !

Welcome to shooting UK

 

[Glorpquoi]

I've been speaking to Thames Valley police this week about my certificate, I have a restriction that land must be cleared by the chief officer of police", what this means in reality is that I take the "estate rifle" out with my friend (guide who has the rights) which is the same calibre and type of rifle as me - there is no logic in not allowing me to use my own rifle in this instance from a safety perspective.

For each parcel of land I want to stalk I first have to submit a query to TVP with grid ref etc. asking them if it's been cleared for .308 - the response rarely gets back to me in time to be any use.

TVP have said that this restriction will only be removed after three years of having live quarry listed on a FAC.

Does anyone know if this is firearms legislation or down to regional police forces?
If it's regional I am going to push for early consideration, I'm working towards my DSC2 and have a stalking diary showing years of stalks.

Has anyone (successfully) requested a open licence for live quarry before the three year period?

Cheers.

 

[Apthorpe]

I've been speaking to Thames Valley police this week about my certificate, I have a restriction that land must be cleared by the chief officer of police", what this means in reality is that I take the "estate rifle" out with my friend (guide who has the rights) which is the same calibre and type of rifle as me - there is no logic in not allowing me to use my own rifle in this instance from a safety perspective.

For each parcel of land I want to stalk I first have to submit a query to TVP with grid ref etc. asking them if it's been cleared for .308 - the response rarely gets back to me in time to be any use.

TVP have said that this restriction will only be removed after three years of having live quarry listed on a FAC.

Does anyone know if this is firearms legislation or down to regional police forces?

It is not legislation. Different forces invent different stupid and pointless restrictions in order to reduce public safety and impair their own efficiency and effectiveness with the additional benefit of annoying certificate holders and impeding the effective management of pest species and other quarry.

If it's regional I am going to push for early consideration, I'm working towards my DSC2 and have a stalking diary showing years of stalks.

Has anyone (successfully) requested a open licence for live quarry before the three year period?

Cheers.

 

[VSS]

TVP have said that this restriction will only be removed after three years of having live quarry listed on a FAC.

.

Some people have "open" conditions from the outset, and some, like yourself, have "closed" conditions.
There is no set time scale for getting the "closed" conditions lifted.
Some police forces say 1 year, others say first renewal (5 years), and others say anything in between! But they're all just making up their own rules.

Basically, if you have a genuine reason for having the conditions lifted you just write to your firearms dept and ask, stating why you need open conditions.
9 times out of 10 you'll get what you're asking for.

 

[Glorpquoi]

Thanks both, I have already asked my FEO to consider this before 3 years, it's an arbitrary number and has no basis in logic or safety, especially if it's not legislation.

Depending on what TVP come back with I might involve BASC, they already told me to highlight my deer stalking qualifications, firearms usage and stalking diary as justification which I have done.

It should be on competence and requirements... not duration.

Cheers.

 

[Grand Slam]

I've been speaking to Thames Valley police this week about my certificate, I have a restriction that land must be cleared by the chief officer of police", what this means in reality is that I take the "estate rifle" out with my friend (guide who has the rights) which is the same calibre and type of rifle as me - there is no logic in not allowing me to use my own rifle in this instance from a safety perspective.

For each parcel of land I want to stalk I first have to submit a query to TVP with grid ref etc. asking them if it's been cleared for .308 - the response rarely gets back to me in time to be any use.

TVP have said that this restriction will only be removed after three years of having live quarry listed on a FAC.

Does anyone know if this is firearms legislation or down to regional police forces?
If it's regional I am going to push for early consideration, I'm working towards my DSC2 and have a stalking diary showing years of stalks.

Has anyone (successfully) requested a open licence for live quarry before the three year period?

Cheers.

My certificate was "opened up" after 6 months. I had plenty evidence in place to show what I had been doing. And a very proactive firearms licensing team at the time.

 

[Glorpquoi]

My certificate was "opened up" after 6 months. I had plenty evidence in place to show what I had been doing. And a very proactive firearms licensing team at the time.

What police force was that?

 

[Grand Slam]

What police force was that?

Suffolk but I believe they are not as good now. This was back in 2013. First application took 19 days from start to finish. Variations done the same day etc

 

[finnbear270]

You could ask them for a full list of "Their cleared land for .308"

 

[Foxyboy43]

Hmmm.
Legislation is (usually) definitive but “policy” i.e. how forces interpret it is where it all falls asunder.
Write to the Head of Firearms setting out (politely) your case for earlier grant including relevant shooting ologies and experience (with evidence/references if poss).
I have always found that if you take your time and put up a reasoned case you will get what you want.
Good luck….

 

[muddy42]

Can I suggest english people seek permission to shoot on land in Scotland. In Scotland the police don't clear land, therefor you can ask for the certificate to be opened up. Job done.

 

[cjm1066]

I provided a letter of support for a friend in Thames Valley and the opened his certificate straight away.

 

[Trickyd66]

A&S said told me last year that my land deemed suitable conditions would be removed on my next renewal.
Managed to get same FEO out again for a 2nd approval a few weeks back (already cleared for all RF, but not 243)
More than happy with my appraisal that the land was suitable for use with 243.
A&S now approve for rimfire (all caliber) or centrefire (all caliber) which is sensible, but he did say that the removal of land deemed suitable conditions is no longer automatically granted... keep a diary/ Journal of all outings and submit with the renewal.
Not sure how that works alongside a local range offering "police approved" land inspection courses at £150 a pop?

Looks like I have more paperwork now

 

[nic531]

My rimfires (.22 & 17HMR) may be used on land where I have lawful permission etc
My C/F rifles only on land deemed suitable by a chief officer of police.

So, half and half for me

and yet home office guidance and NPCC both say that experience is neither calibre nor quarry dependant, ie if ok to decide if safe to shoot with one calibre at a quarry then safe with all at all.