# Felt Recoil Chart

#### gixer1

##### Well-Known Member
Ouch! -

 600 N.E. (900 at 1950) 12 154 28.8

#### gixer1

##### Well-Known Member
The 95 and 100gr 243 figures seem a bit scewed? would have been more interesting to see one rifle weight with the three different rounds for comparison...

 243 Win. (75 at 3400) 8.5 7.2 7.4 .243 Win. (95 at 3100) 7.25 11 9.9 .243 Win. (100 at 2960) 7.5 8.8 8.7

#### scoromongo

##### Member
Recoil depends on a few individual factors:

- A bullet weight
- B gun weight
- C powder weight
- D muzzle velocity
- E gas-factor (constant 1.35)

Using two formulas (all weights in KG, velocity in m/s) you can calculate the individual recoil:

V(gun) = ((A + E x C) x D) / B) = F

R (gun) = (B x F x F) / 2 = recoil [Joule]

(from Robert Albrecht, Praezisionsschiessen, GER-2007)

For some shooters the recoil has a serious background. So me. My doctor said I should finish shooting. Asking him why, he said too much recoil is a risk. My answer was "crossing the street is a risk too" and we found a compromise: no more cross-checks on the ice and not more than 10 joule.

Fine. Sold the .300 WM and started with a 6.5 mm caliber, the .260 Rem.

#### jthyttin

##### Well-Known Member
- E gas-factor (constant 1.35)

(from Robert Albrecht, Praezisionsschiessen, GER-2007)
The gas factor may be near constant given some specific circumstances (like precision shooting under some rules) but in general case it has some variation.

Using 1.35 for constant would mean on the average the powder gas exits the muzzle at 1.35 the speed of the bullet, which seems a little low figure anyway. I don't have any published research to back this up, it's from correspondence with knowledgeable people (who use pressure barreled guns and publish the results for living...)

#### Simjim33

##### Well-Known Member
Recoil depends on a few individual factors:

- A bullet weight
- B gun weight
- C powder weight
- D muzzle velocity
- E gas-factor (constant 1.35)

Using two formulas (all weights in KG, velocity in m/s) you can calculate the individual recoil:

V(gun) = ((A + E x C) x D) / B) = F

R (gun) = (B x F x F) / 2 = recoil [Joule]

(from Robert Albrecht, Praezisionsschiessen, GER-2007)

For some shooters the recoil has a serious background. So me. My doctor said I should finish shooting. Asking him why, he said too much recoil is a risk. My answer was "crossing the street is a risk too" and we found a compromise: no more cross-checks on the ice and not more than 10 joule.

Fine. Sold the .300 WM and started with a 6.5 mm caliber, the .260 Rem.
Thats exactly what has happend to me. Drop the cal or have a nasty operation!

The gas factor may be near constant given some specific circumstances (like precision shooting under some rules) but in general case it has some variation.

Using 1.35 for constant would mean on the average the powder gas exits the muzzle at 1.35 the speed of the bullet, which seems a little low figure anyway. I don't have any published research to back this up, it's from correspondence with knowledgeable people (who use pressure barreled guns and publish the results for living...)
Interesting how far is the spread of verience!

#### 6pt-sika

##### Well-Known Member
I'm not trying to argue with any charts or anyone for that matter . Now with that being said I shoot alot of cartridges from the 204 Ruger up to the 505 Gibbs . And without a doubt the worst I've been thumped by anything were three different lightweight 308's I had . Two were stainless synthetic Remington model 7's and the other was a Ruger 77RSI all were light and all were fired with 150 grain hand loads . The only other thing that really thumped me was a Ruger #1H in 458 Win Mag shooting 510 grain hand loads . The 505 Gibbs was a pussycat compared to those four . Don't really understand the felt recoil with the 308's as I had Remington's just like them in 7-08 and 260 that were a dream to shoot !

#### Simjim33

##### Well-Known Member
I'm not trying to argue with any charts or anyone for that matter . Now with that being said I shoot alot of cartridges from the 204 Ruger up to the 505 Gibbs . And without a doubt the worst I've been thumped by anything were three different lightweight 308's I had . Two were stainless synthetic Remington model 7's and the other was a Ruger 77RSI all were light and all were fired with 150 grain hand loads . The only other thing that really thumped me was a Ruger #1H in 458 Win Mag shooting 510 grain hand loads . The 505 Gibbs was a pussycat compared to those four . Don't really understand the felt recoil with the 308's as I had Remington's just like them in 7-08 and 260 that were a dream to shoot !

You have understood it very well when you refer to the guns that gave you the most thump were the light ones!

The formula's above simply is the maths used to work out if it is going to hurt you or not. Dependant on known quantities like ammo, gun mass and energy.

What the formulas dont take into account is the mass of the person behind the butt!

Now you might be a 350lb 8'6" leather clad mountain of a man. So the felt recoil you perceive will be less than a 150lb girl 5'2" in a bikini. I hope that helps!

#### smullery

##### Well-Known Member
I started as a 16 year old with a 7.62 SLR at 11lbs. That's my benchmark. What recoil....

Nowadays an 8 lb rifle is considered heavy with 5.5 lb rifles the norm for wilderness.

Of course perceived, if not actual, recoil will be an issue.

Up the powder, up the weight of the rifle and things will be easier.

Stan

#### jthyttin

##### Well-Known Member
Interesting how far is the spread of verience!
Barrel length, bore diameter, powder, bullet weight and construction etc. etc. all have influence. One rule of thumb for centerfire rifles is that propellant gas exits at average twice the speed of bullet.

SAAMI guide sheet gives range from 1.25 to 1.75 for different firearms and it relies on nearly 100 year old info ("confirmed by later work").

http://www.saami.org/PubResources/GunRecoilFormulae.pdf

Contemporary published works like The Modern Rifle were quoting 4700fps for average velocity, which was about the same (1.75x the muzzle velocity or even approaching the 2x rule of thumb).

#### Simjim33

##### Well-Known Member
Barrel length, bore diameter, powder, bullet weight and construction etc. etc. all have influence. One rule of thumb for centerfire rifles is that propellant gas exits at average twice the speed of bullet.

SAAMI guide sheet gives range from 1.25 to 1.75 for different firearms and it relies on nearly 100 year old info ("confirmed by later work").

http://www.saami.org/PubResources/GunRecoilFormulae.pdf

Contemporary published works like The Modern Rifle were quoting 4700fps for average velocity, which was about the same (1.75x the muzzle velocity or even approaching the 2x rule of thumb).
Easy reading, it is so nice to work with maths is it not?

#### Simjim33

##### Well-Known Member
I started as a 16 year old with a 7.62 SLR at 11lbs. That's my benchmark. What recoil....

Nowadays an 8 lb rifle is considered heavy with 5.5 lb rifles the norm for wilderness.

Of course perceived, if not actual, recoil will be an issue.

Up the powder, up the weight of the rifle and things will be easier.

Stan
How true! But stock design play a bigger role if taken into consideration. Ergonomics is not just a posh word. But more than not, ignored by the big guys as "so what!!!"

#### Woorarra

##### Member
I agree with the stock design comment, I have a Ruger No 1 and a RSM Ruger both in 458 Lott, I find the stock design of the No1 suits me better, as the RSM stock kicks the living snot out of me! And the RSM is heavier to boot. Also had a No1 in 375h&h and found it very comfortable to shoot.

And if you've ever had the pleasure to shoot a marlin guide gun in 45/70 with max loads, you know all about recoil as well.

##### Active Member
I agree stock design, or lack of it! can really make a rifle hurt.
Shot a club members 444 marlin in a short stocked/barrel lever action...ouch!
Made my .375H&H a pussy cat

#### Simjim33

##### Well-Known Member
The problem is I think. Is that main builders spend less time looking at the stock design than they do about the checkering pattern.

Exemples of a well designed stock is the A-squire coil check stock. Really well designed,but they spent a good deal of money and time with it.

Also look at the Accuracy International stocks. The AW/AE stock follows the same ideas as the coil check! If that is intentional I don't know! But having now shot one I know they work.

#### suburban bushwacker

##### Well-Known Member
So the felt recoil you perceive will be less than a 150lb girl 5'2" in a bikini.
What's the Bikini made of? Chicks in that size range usually weight more like 110lbs, any suggestion of their weighting more usually results in the other kind of 'recoil' which is to be avoided.

#### Simjim33

##### Well-Known Member
What's the Bikini made of? Chicks in that size range usually weight more like 110lbs, any suggestion of their weighting more usually results in the other kind of 'recoil' which is to be avoided.
I was being anecdotal! I was thinking of Summer Galor when I was typing!