Obviously we do not know why they refused your grant, but as for a solicitor then their are specialists regarding firearms law but expect to pay around £400+ an hour for their services with likely a total bill of 10 to 15 thousand pounds.
Firearms Grant Refusal - Appeal
- Thread starter GMan14
- Start date
Why all the bad blood? The guy is clearly reaching out for help from a group of people who may have some experience in the matter. He has not bad mouthed the force involved, nor named them, so why have some been so negative?
I cant help i’m afraid as have not been in the same situation, but i wish you the best of luck.
I cant help i’m afraid as have not been in the same situation, but i wish you the best of luck.
Foxyboy43
Well-Known Member
Hmmm.
The attached seems to be both relevant and clear - note the final bullet point of reasons for refusal/revocation.
www.schofieldsweeney.co.uk
The attached seems to be both relevant and clear - note the final bullet point of reasons for refusal/revocation.
Shotgun and firearms. Revocation and refusal of certificates - Schofield Sweeney
Our expert in firearms licensing Ian Anderson explores some of the common issues around the revocation and refusal of shotgun and firearm certificates.
www.schofieldsweeney.co.uk
Although I agree with you - it wouldn’t be unusual for the police to suggest an applicant gets a shot gun first, then a 22LR and then the old usual of “get a 243 as a 308 is too big for the ground you have”…..
So I see the logic in suggesting shotguns and 22’s.
Stalker62
Well-Known Member
Forgive me.
If this were a 'normal' application, then I could not disagree with you. It is not, and consequently the points I raise, stand.
I am shooting tomorrow with an ex-serviceman. One tour of Iraq and two of Afghanistan. He has only one leg (IED) but a historic caution for assault of a police officer (18 back from first tour, boozing to cope with loss of best mate, big scuffle etc). He has SGC but not FAC due to previous, even though his civilian job is a firearms instructor for a southern police force. A coterminous grant may have been optimistic for your first application. I would speak to a solicitor to review and then submit just a SGC application. When that is refused then you are appealing on much smaller grounds so have less to fail on. With an appeal you have to win every point to get a successful outcome.
Uncle Norm
Well-Known Member
Indeed that is so and there is nothing wrong with that. However, with this type of thread, our members may ask lots of questions, to try and help. You may then be drawn into discussions that should be avoided at all costs.
Until I retired, I had been a firearms and explosives licensing manager for 12 years, in which time I revoked and refused numerous certificates. Unwise use of public social media proved disastrous for some holders.
Just my thoughts for what they are worth.
Out of interest how many then went on to challenge your decision to revoke or refuse via the civil courts?
And if you lost did the police then pay both parties legal expenses?
Uncle Norm
Well-Known Member
Appeals are heard in the Crown Court in England and Wales. Perhaps 6 such appeals in the 12 years. Costs are unlikely to be awarded against the police, unless the decision to refuse or revoke is clearly perverse. It does rarely happen but unlikely, so should not form part of a potential appellant's considerations.
Albeit more than a decade ago, costs awarded to the police were in the region of £3K to £3.5K, so perhaps double that for today.
I shall now take my own advice and refrain from further participation in this thread.
Foxyboy43
Well-Known Member
Interesting inside advice. Thanks for posting.Appeals are heard in the Crown Court in England and Wales. Perhaps 6 such appeals in the 12 years. Costs are unlikely to be awarded against the police, unless the decision to refuse or revoke is clearly perverse. It does rarely happen but unlikely, so should not form part of a potential appellant's considerations.
Albeit more than a decade ago, costs awarded to the police were in the region of £3K to £3.5K, so perhaps double that for today.
I shall now take my own advice and refrain from further participation in this thread.
www.shootinglaw.co.uk or www.shootersrightsassociation.co.uk may be able to help. Others have named Brabners `solicitors as another possible source of help. I have no experience with any of these firms, I just pass this on for information.
Before you get a solicitor involved, write a polite and factual letter to the CC and the Firearms manager, stating facts, include evidence and any support (you mention the feo supported the application), without knowing the details and I don't want to, could your character referees be better as well??
Yup. As one of the guys at a well known equipment manufacturer found out when he made comments re (I think) the Bataclan tragedy - he had his licence revoked.
My social media posts don’t mention anything about me going shooting etc, nor will they. Ever.
In my experience just I have seen it a few times , something 18 years ago they should grant . Say you got breach of the peace today , they won’t grant for 5 years , it not law it just what they do, if you want it quicker you need to take it to court but it’s not like criminal court where they need proof . It only 51% basically if the judge agrees with them you’re stuffed and you can end up with costs 20k ect . Sure you’ve not got ANYTHING in the last 5 years. Does not need to be a conviction just an allegation. David McRae in Glasgow , last time I heard he was £400 an hour and that was ten years ago
Levy & McRae
0141 307 2311
Levy & McRae - Google Search
Levy & McRae
0141 307 2311
Levy & McRae - Google Search
That's not true:
Hertfordshire variation times
Hi All Anyone done a variation in Herts, Beds or Cambs recently?
www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk
Apart from the fact that you have a 22LR a 6.5CDMR + (indicate you have/want a suppressed .338LM) and shotguns including provision for 150 slugs on you FAC.
You have more than 1 gun safe and your S1 cert was issued by TVP in March 2023
You'd bought ammunition 3 times in May (mainly 22LR)
You've been shooting on and off since you were 11 and having had shotguns (S2) for a while, now have your FAC (since March) this year and (I think) you have done well to get over 1200 rounds of .22LR and 300 of 6.5mm on your first FAC.....
Social Media .... good init
Sinistral
Well-Known Member
Frank, if you'll take my reply to this on board in the spirit it's offered, there are exceptions to every general rule. However, all important cases from Crown Courts are reported in the legal press in the interests of open justice. Believe me, firearms appeals where costs are awarded against a Chief Constable (CC) are so rare they are hot news, and become part of case law. Judges in lower courts then follow them, and every KC relies on them on behalf of their clients.
You've made a vague claim of two instances where costs were awarded to successful claimants. I believe this only occurs where the court rules that a Chief Constable acted unreasonably, or 'perversely' as Uncle Norm so neatly put it. If you care to quote the name of appellant, and the approximate year then if I can I'll find the judgment, and post a link to it so everyone can re-assess their chances. Your post sounds very unlikely in view of #51 above.
The case cited below is a High Court appeal from a decision of a Crown Court (you may need to cut & paste the whole link). There are many other cases like it, and transcripts for all of them are available. This case illustrates the legal principles a court follows in determing whether refusals and revocations of firearms certificates by a CC are justified, and how to decide related issues like costs. It might be of interest to some on TSD to see many of the factors involved, and inform themselves generally.
I can do similar searches, but if you've already got a link to your instances then please post it to save me time. If you can't supply enough basic facts to enable a search of the law databases online then your assertions are hearsay so unreliable. I won't use the term bull**** because it's easy to misinterpret judgments, which don't always say what they seem to.
Frank Homes
Well-Known Member
Toufexis v Met Police 2011 was one. I will confirm the other tomorrowFrank, if you'll take my reply to this on board in the spirit it's offered, there are exceptions to every general rule. However, all important cases from Crown Courts are reported in the legal press in the interests of open justice. Believe me, firearms appeals where costs are awarded against a Chief Constable (CC) are so rare they are hot news, and become part of case law. Judges in lower courts then follow them, and every KC relies on them on behalf of their clients.
You've made a vague claim of two instances where costs were awarded to successful claimants. I believe this only occurs where the court rules that a Chief Constable acted unreasonably, or 'perversely' as Uncle Norm so neatly put it. If you care to quote the name of appellant, and the approximate year then if I can I'll find the judgment, and post a link to it so everyone can re-assess their chances. Your post sounds very unlikely in view of #51 above.
The case cited below is a High Court appeal from a decision of a Crown Court (you may need to cut & paste the whole link). There are many other cases like it, and transcripts for all of them are available. This case illustrates the legal principles a court follows in determing whether refusals and revocations of firearms certificates by a CC are justified, and how to decide related issues like costs. It might be of interest to some on TSD to see many of the factors involved, and inform themselves generally.
I can do similar searches, but if you've already got a link to your instances then please post it to save me time. If you can't supply enough basic facts to enable a search of the law databases online then your assertions are hearsay so unreliable. I won't use the term bull**** because it's easy to misinterpret judgments, which don't always say what they seem to.
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