Future of Diesels

Feugh

Well-Known Member
It's coming to the time where I need to buy a new car. I've currently got a diesel Skoda Scout AWD estate and I really like it, but when I tried to buy a new one I found that it's discontinued. Same with the Golf Alltrack. Some say that it may be because VW are struggling to meet new, more stringent emission requirements, I'm not sure whether that is true or not. Does anyone have a crystal ball that they can look into to tell me whether buying another diesel car of any sort is going to be taxed to the hilt and therefore a bad idea?
Thanks,
Feught
 

enfieldspares

Well-Known Member
The love affair with diesel has ended. Presently the risk is that a) their residuals will be poor and b) a future Chancellor of the Exchequer may introduce a punitive VED. If you can keep your Skoda until after the next Budget and then decide.
 

kes

Well-Known Member
I think lots of people will face this dilemma - I am coming up to a new one and haven't a clue. leaning towards petrol but self charging hybrids might be an alternative - anything fully electric seems a risk because of battery failure after a period (many 1000's). Diesel would not, IMHO be the way to go and without further indications, petrol looks the best bet.

I don't have to decide quite yet and my vehicle manufacturer should ante - up if I change within the brand I am thinking.
Where does Gordon Brown live these days, he was so attracted to diesel cars I'm sure he would buy mine in 12 months time.
 

Heym SR20

Well-Known Member
Personally I have always thought a petrol is much nicer car to drive. Whilst modern diesels are very much better than old oil burner they still don't have the smoothness of a petrol. I run a 2.0 TDI Audi A4 Allroad - its great, but have also driven the Petrol engined versions and they really are much nicer to drive. Petrol engines are much less stressed than diesels and generally much simpler so that when / if they do go wrong bills are lower. Yes diesels show better MPG, but thats mostly due to diesel being denser than petrol. Petrol is now cheaper than diesel, servicing is also cheaper, and cost of the vehicle is less so all round running costs probably six of one and two threes. And petrol engines have come a long way in terms of efficiency - especially the little 3 cylinder turbo's found in Golfs etc. The little engined Golf these days does 65 to 70 mpg on a run, yet is better performing than a Mk2 or Mk3 GTI of 20 years ago.

I am not sure the Hybrids are the way to go as with lithium batteries you are hauling around quite a bit of extra weight. Probably better off ditching all the weight and going pure petrol if you needing good range. For short distance trips electric is probably the answer, but not sure if it's a car. eBikes are now really very good and allow you to do a 10 or 15 mile trip at a walking pace level of effort. If you have children or need to carry lots of junk, then the big cargo bikes are really pretty good and cost pennies to run, and a lot cheaper than buying a car.

Our A4 now has 130,000 miles on the clock. But it its still very comfortable and good to drive. I am just going to keep running it for another wee while.
 

B&W FOX

Well-Known Member
You will struggle to find diesel that meets the new 2020 emissions. Hence why most manufacturers won't be building or selling them.
We've had to remove the smaller petrol ATV's from our range as we can't get them to meet the 2020 targets..diesels were never a problem as we just used Renault power units and never manufactured our own, hence us dropping the the diesel Vitara and now just using 1.4 and 1.6 petrol engines. We've also had to drop some of our other car's in the range as they would need too much work to get them through the 2020 regulations.
Be very wary about what you buy as manufacturers could be unloading stock that will not meet the 2020 regulations.
As for the bunch of climate protesters that want everything banned Extinction Rebellion they don't have a clue on how much work is going on behind the scenes .
 

Hereford

Well-Known Member
I think LandRover know - I changed to petrol a while ago but for me to move up to the LandRover brand their petrols are now considerably more than their diesels, so I’m a bit stuck.
 

fallow me

Well-Known Member
Will be interesting to see what the pickup manufacturers will come up with to replace diesel, Cant see battery being an option, unless your prepared to spend around £80,000, I will be buying Diesel again, You can buy some of the pickups New for around £25,000 on the road, that leaves a lot of money to spend on diesel and Tax increases that are expected,
 

Marcher

Well-Known Member
B&W Fox. You seem to have an insight into emissions . I have just been in a JLR show room, and a leaflet in there about "the truth about diesel" implies that their engines comply with Euro 6 +, and with Addblue and particle burners are paragons on purity ? Is this all a hoax ?
 

Loki

Well-Known Member
Hi

In my opinion diesel will be around awhile yet - too many articulateds around and of course vans/cars that cant be taken off the roads just like that. Sure you may well pay some more in whatever the Taxation Highwaymen demand but small change...........

Smaller petrol - yes likely more efficient but also squeezing more out of smaller units (Blue Oval (et al?) and their Eco-something engines - AutoExpress got them to admit a problem but several 1000s still not sorted across the UK). Small fish until it is you looking at thick end of a new engine.

Hybrid/electric - well, we are not putting in any new power plant (Hitachi et al pulled out of new Powerstation (years to build too) if I recall) so where does the extra capacity for the Leccky demand come from? Dont think there is any 'subsidy' for putting an electric point in at home anymore either.

Then there is the upgardes needed on local transformers/cabling infrastructure - not much mention of that by anyone as far as I aware? This of course includes Service Stations for the longer journeys.....................curious how you would pay for the Leccky (and rate/unit?) if on a SS or on-street charging point......

I best leave now!

PS - I have diesels and will continue to do so, but hey not too long before my final call!
 

dunwater

Well-Known Member
Whatever emissions changes are introduced are unlikely to be retrospective, so I'd say buy . I have a 15 year old 4x4 and its emissions are tested based on its year of manufacture.
Tax on diesel may increase but probably not by too much, I don't see any alternative to diesel for long range heavy transport in the short to medium term.
 

Chasey

Well-Known Member
Diesels will be around for quite while

at 25mpg my monthly fuel bill is around £1000 at 50mpg its only £500

So my 3.0ltr MSport BMW diesel is actualy free of charge in comparison to the petrol version

My2.2ltr Rav 4 actualy makes me a profit over the petrol version

I have looked at Hybrid but its hard to see past he lies. Mitsubushi Outlander claim 100mg? Amazing except one of our syndicate members own one and reckons 35mpg.
 

Heym SR20

Well-Known Member
Diesel as a fuel will remain the main fuel for heavy goods vehicles for a good while.

Our National grid can in no way support the charging capacity required. And battery technology doesn’t have the capacity to give a truck meaningful range on battery alone, unless your batteries weigh several tonnes.

And Lithium batteries overheat and are pretty inflammable. They need large cooling systems to keep them cool.
 

tozzybum

Well-Known Member
Yep ,we are still waiting for JLR to source their new power plant ,theyve done a deal with BMW to make electric for 4x4 but there,s still a heck of a lot of life left in Diesel .As last weeks power cut proved as Heym says we cant make enough lectric for now 2 million cars would put us back in the stone age idiot goverments .
Diesel works ,goes a long way and aint too bad, lectric mm chromium from Brasil,Lithium from Aus and China ,shipped round the world then turned into batteries .Then shipped to the factorys to make cars a few carbon miles there about as green as Sizewell B .
Dont forget in 3 to 4 years time these paragons of virtue need a new set of "green" batteries too costing you many thousands ,Hydrogen is the thing BUT the oil companies dont want that as theres no money in water for them
 

Fadcode

Well-Known Member
We should all hope that diesel stays with us for some time, once motorists start changing to Electric vehicles the Govt will need to come up with a plan to get back the duty it is losing on the drop in diesel and petrol sales, at the moment the Govt rake in about £28.5Billion a year on fuel duty, this will need to be covered by the rise in the price of electricity, on average about £1000 per household, and remember this is duty not the price of electricity, so its easy to see how the price of electricity including the duty, etc will need to rise about £2000 per household, and that's before what you actually pay now, add the cost of actually using the electricity to charge your electric cars, so I would estimate a 2 car family would see a cost of about £100 per week at least, obviously you would need to deduct the cost of the fuel at the pump you pay now. that's assuming the cars are full electric not hybrid, Even if you don't own a car you will still pay the extra charge to cover the Govt's losses.
 

enfieldspares

Well-Known Member
And when did the UK's National Grid last fail and "go down"? And nobody had any electricity? Oh...just this month! If I have a full jerrican I'm self sufficient to refuel/recharge my vehicle and depend on nobody.

I can carry a jerrican of petrol and a jerrican of diesel for when there's a strike at the filling station, when there's not one near where I am, when I've not got time to stop to fill up there and then at "the last service station on the XXX road for YYY miles" or because they don't take my card or I've no ready cash and, simply even, I buy it cheap at Asda or Tesco and don't like the rip off price Fred and Joan "local" will charge at their service station at Bolly 'n Bag Backwards where I'm staying for a week. Or my fuel tank is near empty but I get an urgent call and I immediately and suddenly need to fuel up to be a place B or place A at 3.00am on that very Sunday morning I get that telephone call. I'm not yet aware of electricity being sold in jerricans.

And besides where does it come from this electricity? Instead of refining the oil or diesel to make petrol to power the vehicle directly we're refining it to then burn in power stations to produce the electricity.
 
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kenbro

Well-Known Member
Yep ,we are still waiting for JLR to source their new power plant ,theyve done a deal with BMW to make electric for 4x4 but there,s still a heck of a lot of life left in Diesel .As last weeks power cut proved as Heym says we cant make enough lectric for now 2 million cars would put us back in the stone age idiot goverments .
Diesel works ,goes a long way and aint too bad, lectric mm chromium from Brasil,Lithium from Aus and China ,shipped round the world then turned into batteries .Then shipped to the factorys to make cars a few carbon miles there about as green as Sizewell B .
Dont forget in 3 to 4 years time these paragons of virtue need a new set of "green" batteries too costing you many thousands ,Hydrogen is the thing BUT the oil companies dont want that as theres no money in water for them
Hoping Alantoo will chime in here...pretty sure his (Hands on) experience with battery power is different from the last sentence.
Regards,Ken.
 

FISH BOY

Well-Known Member
Will keep my 3.0l diesel V6 until I can get 500miles on a charge...

Unlikely soon as the latest Mitsi Phev can only deliver 37 miles real time before it Konks (3 friends/saviours with one) not to mention the 20 odd nuclear power stations needed now if we all went electric in the UK.

Bottom line, I would be happy to pay more for my dirty girl if there were less cars on the road.

All irrelevant really as with China and India going through an industrial revolution, the chances of saving this planet now really are are slim...
 

Alantoo

Well-Known Member
Dont forget in 3 to 4 years time these paragons of virtue need a new set of "green" batteries too costing you many thousands ,Hydrogen is the thing BUT the oil companies dont want that as theres no money in water for them
We discussed this very point before in The future of Diesel cars

We replaced the battery in our 2001 Hybrid Prius after 14 years at the cost of £1,300. Less than £2 per week, and much less than the saving in fuel costs compared with an equivalent sized 2.5litre saloon of the period.

I can't help but think battery technology will improve and costs will come down.

It does not need any extra infrastructure of the National Grid to charge a Hybrid.

The Prius manages between 45 and 60mpg depending on use.

Hoping Alantoo will chime in here...pretty sure his (Hands on) experience with battery power is different from the last sentence.
Regards,Ken.
Your wish is my command! I was already looking up the last thread... :)

@tozzybum made the same claim in the earlier thread and it turned out to be a quote by a Nissan dealer, he didn't specify the car model...be interesting to hear what Nissan say now, and what any of their customers have actually experienced.


All-electric cars have too many sustainable issues I think given the demands on the grid. Petrol/Hybrid or Plug-in/Petrol/Hybrid seems to answer most of the current concerns with efficiency and especially the pollution in urban areas...The Prius will just use the electric motor below 30 mph.

Alan

P.S.

It is interesting that Nissan actually provide an 8 year warranty on their batteries and say that they should last most customers more than ten years so maybe the dealer that @tozzybum spoke to was mistaken...

"Over time, you will see a gradual loss in capacity, but most people have said that this battery will last for up to 10 years. Nissan gives you an eight-year warranty on the battery or 100,000 miles, and this means that you can expect the battery to last for about 10 years before real problems will start to happen."

 
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