Getting experience in Lancashire can anyone explain some things to me ?

murph3010

Well-Known Member
I saw today on a Facebook post a constabulary is asking a new application for shooting experience before they issue any his licence. The way I understand it is that thereally is no requirement but it is desirable. Issue is and I may be wrong but the only way to get shooting experience is to go on paid guided stalks. The other is the landowner or lease holder with the rights has to give you written permission to shoot then you can with the person's rifle who has the permission? Reason I'm asking is that I don't want this to be an issue for me as my application is finally with the feo. Seems a bit of a catch 22. I know people with permission on land to shoot but are not lease holders. This would mean having to get the farmer to write me a permission to shoot I'm guessing then I could go on with them and shoot their rifle. Which is easier said than done. If anyone could advise me i would appreciate it as it's clear as mud. I have a stalk booked this month for roe buck. So that should at least help. But I can see the feo coming in the next week or so. I have land permission that's all sorted unfortunately not for deer as the farmer wants me to get some experience on bunnys and Charlie. Prove I can do a job for him too I guess. He is going to introduce me to his neighbour to shoot on there too. Anyway thanks for reading aby advice would be welcome. Also I will be doing my dsc1 in April when they do them local to me. Unfortunately I can't book it until the new dates are out.

This is the only site I would trust to ask these questions as everyone has been so supportive.
 
Last edited:

Woodsmoke

Well-Known Member
If you have a stalk booked that's good reason enough. The police have zero authority to insist on 'experience'.
 

Pedro

Well-Known Member
Not sure what they mean by experience. They would like some evidence that you are a safe person to have firearms perhaps, which isn't quite the same thing. If you have a shotgun certificate or have used air rifles in the past you can quote that. If you have been in the armed forces, likewise. But to be realistic, all you have to do is show them you are a fit and proper person to hold a firearms certificate, which you can do through your referees and when they visit you.

As for Facebook posts, remember that you will only have one stilted side of a story. It's possible that this applicant has had some problems in the past that show him in a poor light and the police are wary about letting him loose with guns...
 

murph3010

Well-Known Member
If you have a stalk booked that's good reason enough. The police have zero authority to insist on 'experience'.

I think i may have not wrote this right i undserstand the cant insist on experience but some forces have done. according to people online there well may be move valid reason they are asking these people i dont know but havew seen it said and even basc say its happening more and more.
 

murph3010

Well-Known Member
Not sure what they mean by experience. They would like some evidence that you are a safe person to have firearms perhaps, which isn't quite the same thing. If you have a shotgun certificate or have used air rifles in the past you can quote that. If you have been in the armed forces, likewise. But to be realistic, all you have to do is show them you are a fit and proper person to hold a firearms certificate, which you can do through your referees and when they visit you.

As for Facebook posts, remember that you will only have one stilted side of a story. It's possible that this applicant has had some problems in the past that show him in a poor light and the police are wary about letting him loose with guns...

To be honest thats what i was thinking
 

murph3010

Well-Known Member
Below is what is confusing me in particular this in bold. This suggests to me that the lender if they have the rights given them to shoot and to bring on others to shoot for hunting animals game and vermin this means the can take you onto that land and you can shoot their rifle. So if i had permission in writing to shoot land by the landowner and its stipulated on that permission in writing i can bring others on to do the same i could lend my rifle to someone as long as i was with them. but if it only has my name on that written permission then i would be committing an offense by lending a rifle.

Or am i being dumb and reading that wrong?


• The lender must be;
a) a person who has the right to allow others to enter the premises for the
purpose of hunting animals or shooting game or vermin, or

b) a person authorised by them in writing.
Notes:


Incorporating amendments from the Policing and Crime Act 2017
The detail in this fact sheet becomes law on 2nd May 2017
Section 11A of the Firearms Act 1968 subsumes the rifle exemption at Section 16 of the Firearms Act 1968.
New Section 11A allows a non-certificate holder to borrow a rifle and use it in the presence of a certificate
holder on private premises. The following criteria must be met

• The borrower of a rifle must be aged 17 or older.
• The lender must be aged 18 or older and have a certificate in respect of the rifle.
• The borrower must be in the presence of the lender i.e. in sight and earshot.
• The use of a rifle must comply with any conditions on the certificate held in respect of that rifle.
• The purpose of the loan is only for hunting animals, shooting game or vermin or shooting artificial
targets.

• The lender must be;
a) a person who has the right to allow others to enter the premises for the
purpose of hunting animals or shooting game or vermin, or

b) a person authorised by them in writing.
Notes:

1. Written permission (b) is a new requirement and must be obtained prior to shooting. Verbal
permission is no longer permitted.
2. The exemption does not extend to other types of Section 1 firearms.
3. Section 57(4) of the 1968 Act defines “premises” as including any land. The foreshore is land,
however it is predominately Crown or Duchy owned but some for example, is owned or leased by
private individuals, local authorities or other groups. The rifle exemption may only be utilised on
foreshore in England and Wales where the lender is an owner/occupier/lease holder who maintains
the shooting rights. In the case of a lease, the lease must allow the use of rifles. Crown leases do not
allow the use of rifles. In England and Wales the foreshore is that part of the seashore which is more
often than not covered by the flux and reflux of the four ordinary tides occurring midway between
springs and neaps.
 

25 Sharps

Well-Known Member
10 years' Air rifle was experience for me to get FAC air and SGC, WMR followed 6 months later, first CFs (.223 & 6.5x55) 12 months after by which time I was on an open cert.
 

sy247

Well-Known Member
Why don't you join your local target shooting club? That will give you good reason for a FAC, demonstrate that you are being trained as a safe shooter and you will improve your shooting. It's a lot of fun too. Often you will become familiar with other members firearms and see what you like.
 

srvet

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the repy.

i have come across this issue before. The relevant text is below from the Home Office Guidance

3.30 An applicant who wishes to shoot deer should name land which has the likelihood of the appropriate deer species being present, and an invitation, booking or authority to shoot. Many deer stalkers will rely on invitations to shoot on payment rather than behiredorpaidtodosoandmaynotbe able to shoot regularly or frequently, though others may be permanently employed, for example Forestry Commission staff. Hunting large animals with powerful rifles requires particular skill, and applicants should generally have experience of firearms

The last sentence is the key. What they like is to see progression from less powerful firearms to centre fire rifles. This allows the applicant to show a track record of safe behaviour. Having a DSC1 will probably help as would the documented attendance on range days (BDS run regular range days with a club rifle available by prior arrangement) or deer management outings as an observer. The key is documentation of evidence.
 

Erik Hamburger

Well-Known Member
murph3010 Leaving aside the question why your Force doesn't limit itself to following Home Office guidance, I think your Police force is not necessarily looking for evidence of 'deer stalking', but in general looking for experience you may have with guns and rifles and hunting and field sports. When I was in your position, and in the time I was applying for SGC and FAC, I wrote a very simple 1-page A4 'Shooting CV' listing my various experiences in chronological order. So that include being a novice beater at a shoot; air-rifle target club membership; clay-pigeon shooting; going out stalking with a professional guide using an Estate rifle; BASC safe shot certification; hand-gun training in an Israeli tourist hotel on their underground range open to hotel guests, DSC1; LANTRA L2 center-fire/fox control, etc. etc. I firmly believe that the submission of that 'CV' has helped me enormously to start of my deer-stalking activities -FAC with deer condition, getting an open ticket, etc. etc. - relatively quickly, hitting the ground running.
As far as deer stalking is concerned: My understanding is that if you go out only once a year for just one session, under supervision of a professional guide, and wish to use your own rifle for that, that in Law you have sufficient GOOD REASON to be granted a FAC with deer condition. Maybe your Force needs to be gently reminded of that.
Good luck with your applications, be pragmatic and go with the flow, and communicate with your Force in a professional polite and clear manner, always by 'To be signed for' letter; and you'll soon find that actually they are generally very happy to help and are perfectly reasonable.
 

murph3010

Well-Known Member
murph3010 Leaving aside the question why your Force doesn't limit itself to following Home Office guidance, I think your Police force is not necessarily looking for evidence of 'deer stalking', but in general looking for experience you may have with guns and rifles and hunting and field sports. When I was in your position, and in the time I was applying for SGC and FAC, I wrote a very simple 1-page A4 'Shooting CV' listing my various experiences in chronological order. So that include being a novice beater at a shoot; air-rifle target club membership; clay-pigeon shooting; going out stalking with a professional guide using an Estate rifle; BASC safe shot certification; hand-gun training in an Israeli tourist hotel on their underground range open to hotel guests, DSC1; LANTRA L2 center-fire/fox control, etc. etc. I firmly believe that the submission of that 'CV' has helped me enormously to start of my deer-stalking activities -FAC with deer condition, getting an open ticket, etc. etc. - relatively quickly, hitting the ground running.
As far as deer stalking is concerned: My understanding is that if you go out only once a year for just one session, under supervision of a professional guide, and wish to use your own rifle for that, that in Law you have sufficient GOOD REASON to be granted a FAC with deer condition. Maybe your Force needs to be gently reminded of that.
Good luck with your applications, be pragmatic and go with the flow, and communicate with your Force in a professional polite and clear manner, always by 'To be signed for' letter; and you'll soon find that actually they are generally very happy to help and are perfectly reasonable.


Thanks everyone fur the replies. To be honest this is more a pre just in case question. Im hoping it's not an issue and I really like the experience cv I think I might do that. Going on a stalk so that should help.
 

Heym SR20

Well-Known Member
Fundamentally what the Firearms Licencing Authorities are looking for is that firstly you are Safe and a Fit and Proper Person (whatever that means) and secondly that you are serious about deer stalking and have a good reason for a rifle.

There are many people out there who collect hobbies - this week they are into scuba diving, next week its paragliding, week after its motor bikes and then they want to get into deer stalking.

There are plenty of ways that you can experience deer stalking before you have your own rifle. If you are lucky you have friends or family who shoot and stalk and who can take you out and as appropriate you can use their rifle under their close supervision using the Estate Rifle provision. Many experienced stalkers get a lot of satisfaction from introducing new stalkers to the sport.

Failing that there are a good number of professional guides, sporting agents etc who offer stalking for beginners for a fee. For the equivalent of a week or two ski pass in the Alps you will be able to get a number of stalks and be able to determine if the sport is for you and to gain adequate initial experience to demonstrate good reason to hold your own rifle. And also before spending good money on a rifle / optics, you will be able to get a good idea of what works for you.
 

Rasputin

Well-Known Member
Im in Lancs just tell them you are going stalking on paid stalks ( book a couple) as and when. List your land for your foxes and bunnies then off you go. Fox your going to want a .243+ which you can stipulate aloq to cover your deer rifle.

DO NOT JUMP THROUGH HOOPS FOR THEM

I would say Lancashire are very fair and good to deal with but they are not there to interpret the law as and how they see fit by placing restrictions on you. The onus is on you to show you are a reasonable human being with the capacity to be trusted. Simples.
 
Last edited:

murph3010

Well-Known Member
Im in Lancs just tell them you are going stalking on paid stalks ( book a couple) as and when. List your land for your foxes and bunnies then off you go. Fox your going to want a .243+ which you can stipulate aloq to cover your deer rifle.

DO NOT JUMP THROUGH HOOPS FOR THEM

I would say Lancashire are very fair and good to deal with but they are not there to interpret the law as and how they see fit by placing restrictions on you. The onus is on you to show you are a reasonable human being with the capacity to be trusted. Simples.


Thanks for that all went well got my grant . I couldn't have asked for a more fair deal as I'm a complete novice. So got the 17hmr and 243. I have to have a mentor for 243 for a few months. Got to say it went really well I can't grumble at all.
 

Rasputin

Well-Known Member
Thanks for that all went well got my grant . I couldn't have asked for a more fair deal as I'm a complete novice. So got the 17hmr and 243. I have to have a mentor for 243 for a few months. Got to say it went really well I can't grumble at all.

shouldnt have accepted a mentor condition it’s not a requirement and what if you need to go and your mentor is not available? I would challenge that tbh explain why you think it’s impractical. All down to your discretion of course. But the more people eat lumbered with mentors the more likely to pass it into law they are which will only drive up the price of shooting game. Imho
 

Woodsmoke

Well-Known Member
Great news that you got your ticket granted, but I'd be inclined to challenge the mentor condition too. Doesn't have to be anything fancy, just an email to them explaining why it would be impractical should be sufficient. Here in Scotland we get an open ticket with AOLQ granted in 99% of cases, including first-time applications, so it's not as if it's an unprecedented request :)
 

25 Sharps

Well-Known Member
shouldnt have accepted a mentor condition it’s not a requirement and what if you need to go and your mentor is not available? I would challenge that tbh explain why you think it’s impractical. All down to your discretion of course. But the more people eat lumbered with mentors the more likely to pass it into law they are which will only drive up the price of shooting game. Imho

I had a mentor condition, I would recommend it to others who have limited experience, the OP is apparently happy with it, why put words in his mouth! I genuinely don't get why people get so annoyed by the idea.
 
Top