governmental idiots

swampy

Account Suspended
Badgers spread tb in cattle. This has been shown by government scientists. the scientists recomended a cull in some areas.

So the cull should go ahead to save the slaughter of 1000s of cattle each year?
No the government has said No, can you believe it?

hilary benn said it wouldn't be publicly acceptable. Does that mean they will only impose policies that are popular no matter what the potential loss might be?

I have started an e- petition i will post a link when i get it back (if they accept it)

steve
:(
 

Andy L

Well-Known Member
I am afraid that that sums up this government. They don't work on the same common sense attitude as the rest of the population. Idiots!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

steyr.308

Well-Known Member
Check this Badger out!!..................


This is an article taken from the 26 June edition of the shooting times, page 6.

The Welsh minister for rural affairs, Ellin Jones, has revealed that badgers will be reintroduced to areas where they are culled as part of the Bovine TB eradication programme. She said there were no plans to wipe out the mammal as well as the disease: ''in instigating the badger cull in any area the intentions would be to reintroduce disease-free badgers so that Wales would have a disease-free wildlife population, just as we replace cattle that have been removed because of the disease''

???
 

Andy L

Well-Known Member
Why does it require a total irradication? Surely if you lower the population numbers in an area that is bad with TB then you lower the number of cross infected cattle.
The less the two animals meet, the less the chance of catching something from them.
I am (obviously) no scientist so am very happy to have the finer points explained to me. Please use short words! :lol:
 

swampy

Account Suspended
cows and badgers

I think badgers will come into contact with cows because they will eat bugs from cow muck. cow muck is often found in cow fields. so if there are any badgers then they will go near cows.

I was aware of the two studies. But i knew that both supported the fact badgers have Tb and it is transferred to cattle. Both agree that culling is the answer but study #1 says that it would have to be nearer eradication as Pete says.

I also am no expert. but if your own study says cull then the scientists opinion must be worth more than Jonny Twoccer from the flats down the town centre?
 

buck52

Well-Known Member
This post would not exist if the bunnyhuggers and interfering politicians had not been given creedence.

It is quite simple, there was no overpopulation problems before they got protected status, take them of the list and the paragraph below about expenses wont apply.

The scientists against the cull think the eradication would be need to be on such a scale and over such a long period, it would simply be too expensive and impractical to carry out especially as there is no proof it would be effective

How can you have 'proof' that something has been 'effective' prior to the event :confused:

Typical unscientific mumbo jumbo

Take them off the protected list, leave it a year or so then go and see how many you can count :lol:
 

geoshot

Well-Known Member
Just a couple of thoughts,
I know it's the done thing to bash the townies and all that at times like these but first consider a few things;
Our kids used to drop like flies to TB until we pasturised milk, ie, humans caught TB from cattle, nobody suggested farmers passed it to cows and then kids got it, cows passed it to each other then to us.
The Irish tried eradication of badgers, it utterly failed! Completely unsuccessful! In fact, not only did they wipe out loads of a protected species but the survivors moved around more, so any problems they caused should have spread, but the anticipated TB problems didn't move with the badgers. Those piebald bio-warfare units didn't carry TB to new areas, if they are vectors then they aren't very efficient.
TB spreads most efficiently as a pneumonic disease, ie it is passed on by the infected mammal's breath, (not usually in urine, so no old-wives tales of badger pee please, but it can survive very well in plasma based body fluids eg blood, mucous, cerebro-spinal fluid, milk, semen - one of the reasons to wear latex gloves in the gralloch). An infected badger could pass on the bacterium (mycobacterium tuberculosis or mycobacterium bovis and a couple of others which are rare in this country) if it coughed in a cow's face, but what is more likely to cough in a cow's face? Another cow? What if a farmer faced with an isolation order on his farm just waited a bit to see what developed? A couple of cows with early stage, highly infective TB locked in a byre with lots of other TB-susceptible bovines? But it was a badger what did it, right?
I'm not saying all farmers break the law, just with the pressure on them some might/will take chances, and I caught a few who did when I was a country-based cop, illegal movements, burying carcasses without reporting to vet etc...
And one last big one - our beloved deer carry TB too - what would your reaction be if the NFU demanded a total cull of them in your area? Some of the more extreme anti-TB NFU reps have already suggested exactly that. Your stalking blocks which you have spent time and money on, or your syndicate wiped out, for an unproven suspected, possible transmission route?
Still want to wipe out all badgers?
Do you want to set the precedent?

Image is everything nowadays people, and looking as if all we want to do is slaughter wildlife on the basis of dubious evidence plays right into the hands of the antis just when they are losing the battle (LACS membership fell by 20% since the hunt ban - now that was a BAD piece of law-making, but at least something positive may have resulted from it).

So with all due respect to you Swampy, I won't be signing your petition, you obviously feel strongly about the issue, but so do I.
I am one of ZanuLabour's most persistent critics, but I believe they got it right this time, perhaps for the wrong reason, but wiping out badgers won't wipe our TB in cattle and it will make all country sports people who support a cull look like bloodthirsty idiots.
 

Bandit Country

Well-Known Member
I think the whole badger 'problem' has got too focussed on TB. Ask yourself which animal is the top predator in this country right now (other than all the people with guns). The biggest, heaviest omnivore is Mr Brock.

I happen to live in Herefordshire and have done, on and off, since 1980. In nearly 30 years the badger population has exploded. The road is littered with dead ones, two years ago the nearest sett was 500 metres away - now there are two within a hundred yards. I routinely see bumble-bee nests ripped open, I can't remember when I last saw a hedgehog roadkill locally, so I guess they all learnt the green cross code overnight? The damage that expanding badger populations do is clear to anyone who cares to open their eyes. While I know that not all farmers are destined for universal sainthood, I also know folk with closed herds, when the get a reactor, quite reasonably ask the question, where did the TB come from?

It ain't just TB in cattle; badgers have a massive impact across our ecosystem. I'm no scientist but I would bet my pension it is going to get worse. I would be interested to hear more about the RSA multi pronged strategy that Pete mentions. In that context I would alos like to know what happens when the numbers of the top predator in RSA get out of control, or a herd of big grey agricultural vandals start ripping up the mealie crop? :)

I will be signing Swampy's petition because we need to get our countryside management into balance and right now it simply isn't. It is biased in favour of the Beatrix Potter view of wildlife, to an extent that is simply ludicrous

A spineless politician has clearly made a decision based on personal self interest. He hasn't even got the guts to say it himself and leaves it up to Krebs to come on and do the 'face the media' bit. For those with short memories that is the same Krebs of the much vaunted Krebs Study which was empirically crippled from the outset by external interference in the control areas. "Scientific findings"? I think not.

While I wont condone any illegal action I can see that this latest Government abrogation of responsibility will prompt desperate and disillusioned folk to take measures which will be detrimental to all concerned. Sad but true.
 

Beowulf

Well-Known Member
Well I think it’s like that scene in Blazing Saddles, 'Badgers...we no need...no stinking badgers'! :lol:

Doesn't the movement of stock across the country help spread TB? Bring back local abattoirs to reduce cattle movements and implement sensible badger management culling and see if that makes a difference.
 

charadam

Well-Known Member
Will someone please tell me - how are present-day cattle infected with TB?

Definitive answers only, please, with no shilly-shallying.
 

old keeper

Well-Known Member
govermental idiots

Bandit countryis spot on when he mentions the damage badgers do in addition to the TB question. You always ask for trouble when you protect any predator with no predators of its own. Hedgehogs were common in my part of devon, haven't seen one now for years! Bumblebee nests are being destroyed in large numbers and the diminishing numbers of this pollinator is becoming obvious. On the other hand badgers are proliferating, the numbers of this creature in this county are enormous, Hedges are eroded, tractors are not uncommonly dropping one wheel into unseen tunnels. The wheat fields around my home have very large areas flatened, there is one particular area where at least an acre has already been ruined by these pests. 21/2 tons an acre equals a loss of about £400 in this spot alone and harvest is still a month away :( Years ago I had to supply badger skins to a firm who turned them into shaving brushes, they were not protected and numbers were kept much lower than tey are today. Certain practices such as badger digging, baiting etc: were instrumental in bringing about the total protection of them. Total eradication is an impossibility but a substantial reductionin their numbers would benefit not only the eco system in the countryside but the badger itself.
Portrayed as cuddly, peanut eating creatures by Bill Oddie et al, they have become a bloody nuisance by their sheer numbers alone and they should be reduced. Foxes are not afforded protection yey their numbers remain pretty well static. Sadly, no-one listens to the people who really know whats going on in the countryside and only see what they want to see. There are times I long for the days when we in the country stood for something, this is no longer so. Finally before I really get wound up :evil: I as an old man find it incredible that if I as a keeper were to kill a badger I could get fined £5000 or be sent to prison and have all my gun licences revoked, whilst on a daily basis the scrotes who beat up old folk and generally cause mayhem get away with a slap on the wrist. What a bloody stupid country this has become. There I feel better :D :D
 

buck52

Well-Known Member
Well put.
As I said previously: take them off the protected list, that way the spineless politicians wont have ok'd a cull and the bunnyhuggers wont have a clue about numbers culled.

Result:
A farmer that has a lot of badgers on his land can legally get it sorted.
If a keeper is losing birds to badgers he can sort it locally
The Grey Partridge may have a better chance of recovery
Bumble bees may again be commonplace
Hedgehog numbers will/should improve
Other ground nesting birds will have a better chance of rearing their young
Less roadkill badgers means less insurance claims so cheaper insurance
and finally more shaving brushes

The badger problem, which is about all and more of the things above, not just TB, is a classic example of meddling by people who have not got a clue.
 

Andy L

Well-Known Member
That is what I find great about this forum. I never even considered badgers as being one of the culprits in the declining numbers of hedgehogs or bumble bees. Once again, I am educated to a better level. :lol:
 

243varmint

Well-Known Member
couldn't agree more about road kill and insurance claims. A badger who obviously had not read the green cross code ran out in front of me when i was doing 50. complete front lower half on my golf gti was pushed back 4-6 inches. would of cost a furtune if i had to claim in the long run. managed to repair it at work.
They are a problem so why isn't there a licensed cull. the fluffy bunny mentality is running this country not common sense .
Rant over thanks
Jonathon
 

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