Gralloch + DSC Level 2

Nick Gordon

Well-Known Member
Can some bright spark out there explain why it is recommended that after the shot and before removing the stomach from larger species the gullet is either tied off in a knot or crimped with a cable tie (see last month's SR)?

The reason I'm asking is my mate is about to undergo his DSC Level 2 and has been told this is the way the they want it done.

He has seen several hundred deer field gralloched by professional stalkers but they have never done this saying that all you would be doing is sealing off one end of the gullet but not the other so what's the point when any undigested food in the gullet can still pass down the gullet and secondly, the amount of any food in the gullet would be minimal anyway?

Over to the experts.

Nick
 

EMcC

Well-Known Member
Nick, I am not a 'Bright Spark' nor am I an 'Expert' but it seems you have answered your own Question.
As you say, it is to prevent anything coming back up to contaminate the carcass.
Who is the 'they' that insist this is done, is it a 'Credible witness' or an AW.
I'm sure if this was discussed at the time of the event with whoever 'they who insist' is, then I'm sure your mate would not have a problem whichever way it was done providing no contamination occurs.
It might be an idea to ask the 'Witness' how he does it as all witnesses would/should be very experienced in their own right.
Good Luck to your mate.
PS any advice sought from the Witness should be done before the stalk takes place in general conversation as the Witness is not allowed to offer advice or guidance once the test has started.
Good Luck.
 

wadashot

Account Suspended
With my work with the Forestry Commission over the years, their procedure was to do it the level 2 way, tie the food pipe off at both ends so as not to contaminate the meat. This way was then stopped as it was decided that when the throat was cut open to tie it off at the top end, there was a greater risk of contamination through the neck when dragging off the ground. :rolleyes:

Not sure that this will help with your query.

wadas
 

Muddy

Well-Known Member
level 2

the idea of tying of the esophagus is what is required in the assessment so obviously he will have to do it this way . But in general stalking conditions it is not practical depending on the dragging distance roe munties can be carried out so no contamination o cures but larger species this would causes problems , Depending when deer are shot ie at last light the stomach will be nearly empty first thing in the morning after feeding at night they will be full these are also deciding factors . When i done mine the whole carcass after being bled was taken back to larder ( not far away ) and every thing dropped out from the anus right through to the head and the head was removed from the back so nothing was contaminated . The green offal was then separated and inspected put in the correct labeled bin the pluck was inspected and tagged as the carcass was ,the same in those days the head was then inspected and put in with the green offal to be disposed of by the estate the carcass weighed larder sheets filled in for estate records tools and larder washed down job done . Make sure you know the lymph nodes sightings and names as these will be asked by the assessor usually and what abnormalities you are looking for make sure you know what a healthy normal one looks like and you should have no problem at all good luck on your assessment just take your time and demonstrate you can do the job to a satisfactory standard as this is were the trained hunter comes into it if selling to game dealer . If there is anything else you need to know just ask we all will help you on this sight MUDDY
 

Duncs

Well-Known Member
wadashot said:
With my work with the Forestry Commission over the years, their procedure was to do it the level 2 way, tie the food pipe off at both ends so as not to contaminate the meat. This way was then stopped as it was decided that when the throat was cut open to tie it off at the top end, there was a greater risk of contamination through the neck when dragging off the ground. :rolleyes:

Not sure that this will help with your query.

wadas
So, why is there a difference between what the forestry do and what "level 2" does? I am under the impression that to get forestry work, people need level 2, but then they seem to change it!!!

It saddens me to see Nick put down for asking a question, if this is the only question his mate needs answering, ( and at least he has asked, rather than just go through the motions to pass, I personally think he should be encouraged.) I have seen loads of deer gralloched by the froestry, and level 2 holders, and AW's and yet only ever seen the "tie" take place once.....on an assesment!!!
 

sikamalc

Administrator
Site Staff
Hmmm another DSC Cock up. Look if this is what they ask you to do then fine you have to humour them and do it to pass. Some folk tie off the gullet so as to stop any green coming back up and contaminating the meat, many stalkers do not.

This is fine if you have a Roe on the floor in a nice sunny field in Sussex, but if you are taking Red Hinds or large Fallow off a hill or deep wood, the least holes you put in the carcase the less likely hood of contaminating the meat when you drag the beast back to a quad or car.

Believe me there are many places I have stalked in Scotland where you cannot get a machine. The last long drag I did on the West Coast was 2 years back, 245lb Stag for three hours down a steep mountain, to a boat!

Wadas is correct, least holes in them the better.

There were three holes in the stag that weighed 245lbs, 1 where the client shot it. 2 where I stuck it and bled it. 3 where I gralloched it.

Mind you it bloody near killed me dragging it, and I was totally dehydrated when we reached the beach. I had to light a fire to dry my clothes out as I had perspired so much. Ahhh happy days :eek:
 

Duncs

Well-Known Member
EMcC...you did!!! I was sad that another AW said "maybe he was not ready to take the test."

Surely that is why he was asking, so he would be ready!!!
 

wadashot

Account Suspended
Nick, your mate needs to do it the level 2 way, then he won`t go wrong.

Give him this little tip to help him tie the esophagus off.

Before he cuts it, tell him to get his knife and scrape the slimy layer of fat off from all around it, about 1 1/2". He should also run his finger and thumb along to push any food stuff away when he cuts it and stops food seaping out. When he has done this he can cut the esophagus and tie it off easily without it slipping through his fingers, also do this at the other end. This can help to do it that bit quicker. ;)

Tell him good luck ;)

wadas
 

devilishdave

Well-Known Member
Cable ties

To be honest to scrape and cut takes no more than 20 seconds, you would probably take 20 seconds to find the little cable tie in your pocket!! How many animals would you need to do to make the time saving of the cable tie worth while?

Before you dispose of the graloch do you remove the non biodegradable cable tie?

Dave
 

Andy L

Well-Known Member
Did you have a bad experience wih cable ties when you were a lad or something, Dave? :lol:
I don't think that you can beat cable ties. They are quick, simple and don't slip.
 

wadashot

Account Suspended
I have to agree with devilishdave, It takes no time time to scrape and tie off, and in all my years of stalking and deer gralloched i have never had a knot come undone. :rolleyes:

wadas
 

devilishdave

Well-Known Member
Andy L said:
Did you have a bad experience wih cable ties when you were a lad or something, Dave? :lol:
I don't think that you can beat cable ties. They are quick, simple and don't slip.
lol

No, I can even get them for nothing, I just dont see the point when you can do it naturaly and quickly without. I supose I had best give it a try before I condemn it!!

Dave
 

JAYB

Administrator
Site Staff
No matter how much I scrape and try to tie off the esophagus I can't, well I can but it is so fiddly for me. My poor old knackered nerve endings in my fingers make it a real chore, it's like sewing jelly together. To be honest I have never used a cable tie but I will certainly try them, which means me and my butchers string can part company.

John
 

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