Gross negligence!!!

New Avon Arms

pjkaz

Well-Known Member
Visited my local gunshop, to buy some ammo, no-one around to serve me immediately, started to have a look at some rifles that were out of the rack. Another customer was doing the same, and was looking at a rifle that i beleive was returned to the shop by a customer. I heard him say to the sales assistance ' bloody hell, have you seen this?, there's a round in the chamber!!!!'. The sales assistance took the rifle of him, and said 'f****ing hell, there's a live round in there!'......... and there was...... Point 308 ballistic tip. Should this be taken further?, should the person who received the rifle be disciplined?, should the customer of the rifle have his FAC revoked?, what are the legal responsibilities of the gun shop?. Comments welcome.......
 

Pete E

Well-Known Member
Personally, I would be loath to get the Police involved especially as no one has been hurt.

Ever consider that a live round was deliberately loaded into the rifle while it was on the rack just to cause trouble?

I've heard of it being done with a .22LR in a shop that was local to where I live...
 

snowstorm

Well-Known Member
I was taught that if you are given a rifle you don't accept it until it's condition is made known to you, and only accept it as unloaded with the bolt open and the chamber shown as empty.

I'd say the shop was to blame in that they have a duty of care for your safety, clearly they did not check the condition of the rifle.

Mind you, my opinion is influnced by the fact that I was in a gun shop in the South West last week, and from the other end of the room an assistant closed the bolt on a rifle he was fixing scope mounts to and swept me and the rest of the room with it. Had he been closer I'd have had a word.
 

splash

Well-Known Member
Who can you point the finger at ?

Person who returned the gun

Person who accepted the gun

Person who put it on the rack

Or the person who could have put a round in to cause mischief

The last one seems unlikely but could have happened . The other three should have looked but for some strange reason did not ! Hopefully two of them you and the other customer have learned a very scary lesson .
Thank god no one put the bolt in and tried the trigger pull ! Then the dilemma would have been taken out of your hands.

A firearm should always be treated as if it's loaded !
 

Trapper

Well-Known Member
No sane
Gunsmith /or shop I have ever visited have guns for perusal (IE) loose and not chained !!!, certainly not with bolts ,within hand reach my shop is ultra safety aware and god forbid if you breach THERE rules! you are out on yer arse !!and don't come back!! 8) They always show SAFE and expect the same back! as it should be. There may be banter around but they keep their eye on the ball, pity you have such a poor shop, perhaps it is time to look elsewhere , but tell them why you are on yer bike.
Regards Trapper
 

stone

Well-Known Member
at the midlands gamefair last year
while going up gunmakers row , one stand had left all the keys in the padlock which inincidentaly took out and attracted the attention of a member of staff and duley handed the set of keys over , if this had been found by a scrot of sorts ,he could of returned in the night and stole a good many of guns and rifles
can't comment on what went wrong in the gun shop but if it had no bolt in why was there a round lodged in place ( something must of been faulty)
and if there was a bolt in the weapon , i would put money on some one either trying out to see if his loads would fit like it did in the last rifle he looked at or some one was trying it on to get a cheap deal as a sweetner to keep stumm about the round being found
either way the truth will never out , and some one will bear the brunt of the problem though not thier fault
 

pjkaz

Well-Known Member
Who can you point a finger at .ALL OF THEM one persons lack of safety procedures does not excuse the next person that takes charge of that rifle. If the normal safety checks had been carried out the customer would have made the rifle safe the sales person would have done the same .then he would know if the round had been put there after the rifle had arrived at the shop. he did not he was as surprised as anyone one there can be no excuses on matters of safety.
 

poddle

Well-Known Member
Maybe the shops should remove the bolts on rifles as soon as they come in. These bolts could then be stored separately until a serious enquiry was made about that rifle.
The bolt could then be replaced for the duration of the inspection.
 

pjkaz

Well-Known Member
I think thay should start at the basics first maybe thay should remove the ammo from the rifle first .
 

poddle

Well-Known Member
Shudder to think what could have happened had this situation gone to the extreme

Same old mistakes every time though is it not, I mean what could be easier than

1. Bolt back

2.Mag out

3 Check chamber.

Even the police can't seem to count to three these days. Officer shot himself last week in Wiltshire after being on the range. Air lifted to hospital, with a hole in his hand.

He did it whilst cleaning the gun.
 
D

Davie

Guest
There have been many time were some one has broken code and that includes me now some times no one know but your self and a deep inhale of air is all that comes of the situation some times your out with a friend and they or you make a mistake .If he is a good friend or you are that is were it will stay. Now on a few occasions there are plenty there to see the mistake and that's not good because there is always some one wanting to call the cops and get others in trouble for me its a mistake that will not be repeated not one that should be told to the law.
ps if you have never made a mistake with regards your shooting you have not been shooting long and hopefully if or when you do you learn quickly from it and not suffer a report that will loose you your FAC or some ones else's lively hood.
 

splash

Well-Known Member
Go's along the lines of him without sin cast's the first stone !

I won't be picking up any stones then !!!!! :)
 

poddle

Well-Known Member
Certainly been there and done that 6.5, but I would have thought the shop in question would have had a system in place for checking stuff upon arrival.

Not just stick it on the shelf, in the same condition as it came in.

Take the bolt out and the round would have dropped out of course.

Common sense. The worlds biggest oxy moron
 

pjkaz

Well-Known Member
AH HAH!!!, penny has just dropped..I have had the sudden realisation that not everybody has had formal training in weapon safety, and safety procedures, which may account for some of the responses i received to my original post. From here on, it is likely to get more personal, therefore, this will be my last comment on the subject.
Thankyou to everyone for their input....
 

scotsgun

Well-Known Member
I'd forget all about it..in fact i'd remove this thread as pc plod are likely to visit these sites regular and would be keen to investigate further.

At least one guy's livelihood is at stake.
 

devilishdave

Well-Known Member
Guns

In years gone bye I used to inspect weapons including assault rifles for the Army. The first thing you do when you pick up a rifle as general practice is carry out normal safety precautions; Check no mag on cock rifle check breach body bolt physicaly swipe the mag area to check a shorter mag hasnt been fitted then check breach body bolt again (Known as the 7 point check). I remember in one armoury I picked up a rifle and cocked it the first thing that happened was an empty case flew out. I checked the extractor and ejector and they were both in good order. I test fired the rifle and it functioned perfectly for over 100 rounds. I had looked in to who the rifle belonged to and the guy wasn't the mst popular guy in the Coy and the long and the short of it was some one had tried to fit him up but hadn't thought it through. when you leave any range every person must show their rifle to be clear and when the rifle fires a round it ejects the empty case. Had it been a live round then it could have been baleived that some one had managed to miss the inspection at the end of the range and they were grossly negligent.

Dave
 
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