Handling an LBP without a slot

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Elshad

Well-Known Member
Hello all, at a recent gun show one of the exhibitors was very reluctant to allow anyone to handle or even touch any of the LBPs on display, asking all visitors if they had a slot for an LBP on their FAC before allowing them to handle it.

No disrespect meant to the chap - I’m sure he’s just trying to be extra cautious - but is there any actual legal basis for this?

I’m fully aware that LBPs/LBRs and section 1 shotguns cannot be held on club certificates for use by members or loaned to others (as a consequence of poor/outdated wording in the 1988 Act) but unless I’m mistaken there isn’t any actual legislation which places such restrictions on an RFD in the normal course of business?

Anyone know where this myth / reluctance comes from?
 
Yes there is. The law was badly written and effectively means that no one can handle an LBR/LBP or S1 Shotgun if it is not listed on their FAC.

I have LBR on mine but cannot handle or shot someone else’s even if it’s a matching model. Has to be explicitly listed by Serial number on your FAC. The FLDs tend to turn a bit of a blind eye to shops and dealers allowing handling in store.

Sounds like the guy was just being cautious but also didn’t want people handling his goods and tyre kicking when they aren’t genuinely in the market I.e. have a slot on the FAC.
 
And yet I've been informed by my FEO that there's nothing wrong with letting anyone use my S1 shotgun so long as they're under my supervision (no different to letting someone shoot my rifle - his words).

This was in response to a query I put to him about a clay shooting instructor in the Borders who advertises a tiered clay shooting package, with the premium level allowing you shot of a "9 shot semi automatic benelli".
 
A few years ago there was some mention of section 130 of the P&C Crime act 2017(in addition to the Firearms act 1968 giving the permission to share shotguns but it was very unclear as to the intention. with that being said LBP are listed on FAC as a long barrel pistol (over 60cm) this means you can't class it as a rifle even though the idea of a 12" barrel was to get it close to a rifle.

So does the option of sharing only apply to rifles and shotguns(s2), What about other items on your FAC Sound mod or black powder pistol?
 
Heym SR20 said:
Where exactly is the legislation on long barreled pistols. I thought the whole was that the long barrel and stock / coat hanger made them effectively a short rifle thus a section 1, as opposed to section 5.
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The “good reason” element to possess/use LBRs/LBPs is for target shooting as a full member of a HO approved shooting club. The HO criteria restricts what firearms the club may acquire on its FAC or what members, on their personal FAC may acquire/possess/use/lend to other members “in connection with target shooting” viz Small bore rifles, full bore rifles and muzzle loading pistols.
As LBRs/LPBs do not fall within the above category they cannot be held on a Club FAC nor lent by other members who hold them on their personal FAC.
 
Oracle said:
The “good reason” element to possess/use LBRs/LBPs is for target shooting as a full member of a HO approved shooting club. The HO criteria restricts what firearms the club may acquire on its FAC or what members, on their personal FAC may acquire/possess/use/lend to other members “in connection with target shooting” viz Small bore rifles, full bore rifles and muzzle loading pistols.
As LBRs/LPBs do not fall within the above category they cannot be held on a Club FAC nor lent by other members who hold them on their personal
Click to expand...

Yes, but full bore rifles effectively covers any centre fire rifle which includes all pistol calibre rifles as well as those of higher velocities. In effect a full bore rifle is anything that is not a 22 rimfire cartridge. Within the NRA categories, LBP are included along side other pistol calibre rifles as Gallery Rifles.
 
cjm1066 said:
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Yup, Firearms Law and more importantly its Interpretation makes absolutely no logical sense.

Section 1 - applies to all Firearms, other than those that fall into the classification of Shotguns.

Section 5 - prohibited weapons, and this were semi automatic rifles and pistols, etc etc are prohibited.

In particular-

)any firearm which either has a barrel less than 30 centimetres in length or is less than 60 centimetres in length overall, other than an air weapon, F21. . . a muzzle-loading gun or a firearm designed as signalling apparatus;]

So as regards Long Barreled Pistols - these are not prohibited as they are above minimum total length and minimum barrel length and thus are not a prohibited firearm and are thus classified as a section 1 Firearm.

Type, as in what is on your FAC is more of a descriptive term rather than classification - Single shot, Bolt Action, Falling block, Revolving carbine etc.

The fact that they have a very uncomfortable wire frame off their back rather than a wire frame with a vertical piece is just semantics. Equally a lightweight rifle can be shot one handed if so desired. - think Buckmark Carbine etc

As per my opening statement- it makes no sense.
 
Heym SR20 said:
Yup, Firearms Law and more importantly its Interpretation makes absolutely no logical sense.

Section 1 - applies to all Firearms, other than those that fall into the classification of Shotguns.

Section 5 - prohibited weapons, and this were semi automatic rifles and pistols, etc etc are prohibited.

In particular-

)any firearm which either has a barrel less than 30 centimetres in length or is less than 60 centimetres in length overall, other than an air weapon, F21. . . a muzzle-loading gun or a firearm designed as signalling apparatus;]

So as regards Long Barreled Pistols - these are not prohibited as they are above minimum total length and minimum barrel length and thus are not a prohibited firearm and are thus classified as a section 1 Firearm.

Type, as in what is on your FAC is more of a descriptive term rather than classification - Single shot, Bolt Action, Falling block, Revolving carbine etc.

The fact that they have a very uncomfortable wire frame off their back rather than a wire frame with a vertical piece is just semantics. Equally a lightweight rifle can be shot one handed if so desired. - think Buckmark Carbine etc

As per my opening statement- it makes no sense.
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I've never been convinced the law says you can't borrow/lend a pistol, but it's commonly accepted and not something I have the time/energy/money to challenge formally. LBPs were born to comply with the terms in the Firearms Act, they're small rifles with an unusual configuration.

Lending S1 shotguns is more clear cut due to the wording of the borrowing clause.

I'm convinced neither of these was intentional (because, why?) but results from sloppy wording.

Oh well.
 
It needs one line changing in the Act to specifically add Sec 1 shotguns/LBP and LBR. ( Prob a bit more to it! )
 
SimpleSimon said:
I've never been convinced the law says you can't borrow/lend a pistol, but it's commonly accepted and not something I have the time/energy/money to challenge formally. LBPs were born to comply with the terms in the Firearms Act, they're small rifles with an unusual configuration.

Lending S1 shotguns is more clear cut due to the wording of the borrowing clause.

I'm convinced neither of these was intentional (because, why?) but results from sloppy wording.

Oh well.
Click to expand...

I believe a club did get an LBP as a club gun that members can use, then were later told they cant have it. They legally challenged it and won if I recall correctly
 
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