Has driven Game shooting had it’s day?

The whole thing is about money!! No not the rich folk shooting big bags, that has happened since Edwardian times.
It's the common herd that's the problem, they have too much money. Offer anyone a pheasant, duck, rabbit or hare in my youth, they'd bite your hand off, because it was good food. Food consumed almost half (if not more) of everyone's income. It is now so cheap that it gives people extra disposable income and they can pick and choose what they eat. They then waste their saved money on various means of enjoyment.
They no longer have to worry and buy their tasteless chicken, cheap pork or nut cutlets because it's cheap and they can afford to dine out more.
If there was a food shortage and money was tight there would soon be a great wailing and gnashing of teeth for pheasants etc.

How times have changed even in our short lifetimes.

My avatar is from a 14th century English stained glass panel. Then if a poor harvest didn't kill you the Black Death probably would, 50:50 for many ... :eek:
 
I'm very reluctant to criticise any form of shooting no matter how disagreeable I personally may find certain aspects of it are. This is because I believe too many shooters have in the past been only too eager to throw another shooter under the bus in order to divert attention away from their own indiscretions or shortcomings. All I would ask is that they simply consider how outsiders may possibly just view their own sport.
Hang together or hang alone.
I was waiting for this post and fully get the point but the sport has got to help itself and chucking 1000 birds in a pit is very much not.

K
 
Reading the thread with much interest. All of you make many valid points.
IMO large commercial shoots may need to adjust their operations, birds seen as by products to be disposed of however possible.
Lots of medium/ small days now swap ready dressed birds, Tesco style on trays in cling film type wrapping, for birds in the feather. Guns who normally don't take birds seem to take a lot more if the hard work has been done by someone else!
Farm/ self help shoots, by their very nature tend to shoot smaller bags, this means all the birds are appreciated and taken home. Excellent example in my book!
We have purposely moved to smaller days here, thus gamedealer drops last shoot days dressed out birds when they pick up most recent bag. This means more chiller space, they're all placed in human food chain and not wasted, plus he doesn't have to pay the estate so much!
I agree, very nice indeed. But tell me, how do you get a game dealer to take your birds?. There are none here buying or taking them.
 
Hang together or hang alone.
This is a fair point. My concern however is that stalking may end up tarred with the same brush in the public eye as 1000 birds getting put in a pit
If the shoot doesn't have an outlet for the birds then they shouldn't be shot.
This seems to be the key and applies equally to stalking.

The impact appears to be wider than just the animal and also feeds into the lead/non-toxic debate. Large quantities of lead discharged around the countryside at game that isn't eaten appears difficult to justify amongst shooters, let alone to the non-shooting general public. Actually, it's probably difficult to justify even if all the game is getting eaten!
 
Nothing new under the sun, twenty years ago you could walk the boundary of a big bag shoot in Thetford and see birds thrown to waste, and not too subtly. Certainly the scrutiny and pressure is more acute now and I really feel for those who cannot get theirs collected at the close of play, but corporate shooting, it's an just industry nothing else, it even has it's own mouthpiece.
 
My concern however is that stalking may end up tarred with the same brush in the public eye as 1000 birds getting put in a pit
If you take current venison prices, couple them with further lockdowns squashing demand from the hospitality industry, then add in a dash of the Scottish government's determination to decimate the deer population, then you've got the perfect recipe for us ending up in exactly the same boat as game-shooters.
 
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There has to be/is a big difference between throwing other aspects of shooting sports under the bus and turning a blind eye to behaviour which cannot be justified and does serious damage to the overall reputation of shooting.

Like it or not, much of the public does not see us a separate groups of driven game shooter, rough shooters, stalkers etc but sees us as one and the same.

I fully agree that we all must be careful not to fall into the comfortable place where we pay no attention to attacks on aspects of shooting which we are not involved in and which we, individually, might not be too keen on. It is quite clear that the antis will start with the most controversial and work in. Even though I have never, and probably never will, get involved in driven grouse or dangerous game, I will not criticise that overall principle of engaging in these aspects of shooting and will defend their principle as and when I can.

That is not to say I would ignore, or think anyone should ignore, poor behaviour where it occurs. It is quite possible to call out larger shoots (most of which are commercial businesses) for not having the foresight or care to think about how the deal with their birds before shooting them whilst at the same time defending the principle of game shooting for those who want to engage in it and do so in a properly thought out way.

To not do so will also play into the hands of the antis. I have no doubt that the damage done by footage of a shoot burying thousands of birds will be far worse than any damage which might be done by shooters being willing to agree with the antis that bad practice should stop where it occurs and can be agreed to be poor practice.

As to the sustainability of game shooting, I would agree with those who say that if they can't make use of the birds, don't shoot them. Unlike stalking, and some vermin control, where the provision of food is only one of a number of justifications for shooting the species involved, it strikes me that meat is about the only excuse for driven shooting. If they are not using the meat, then they are shooting birds for the sake of shooting them. Habitat conservation aside, there can be little justification for that. My own view is that the big bag shoots need to reinvent themselves and make it more about the day out and less the numbers although, as others have pointed out, there is more they could do to find a use for the birds which are shot before determining that numbers have to be cut back.
 
The whole thing is about money!! No not the rich folk shooting big bags, that has happened since Edwardian times.
It's the common herd that's the problem, they have too much money. Offer anyone a pheasant, duck, rabbit or hare in my youth, they'd bite your hand off, because it was good food. Food consumed almost half (if not more) of everyone's income. It is now so cheap that it gives people extra disposable income and they can pick and choose what they eat. They then waste their saved money on various means of enjoyment.
They no longer have to worry and buy their tasteless chicken, cheap pork or nut cutlets because it's cheap and they can afford to dine out more.
If there was a food shortage and money was tight there would soon be a great wailing and gnashing of teeth for pheasants etc.
To back what you're saying my granny one told me a story that one Christmas eve they had a knock on the door and as kids do her an her brother were peering round he father's legs to see who it was, anyway it was a neighbour who'd come round in tears as she'd nothing for the table for Christmas dinner, now my great grandfather was a well respected man with plenty about him so told unsuspecting Alfred "granny's brother" to go fetch him pet rabbit from the garden, much to Alfred's horror the rabbit was necked on the doorstep and handed over to the lady.
Oh how times have changed eh !!!
 
I agree, very nice indeed. But tell me, how do you get a game dealer to take your birds?. There are none here buying or taking them.
We are fortunate enough to have access to farm shops locally. In essence, gamedealer processes everything,guns/beaters take their share,shops take the balance.
We basically pay for processing with birds in feather. Demand increases Xmas time,we shoot accordingly. Helps immensely that we are private, not syndicated.
I doubt,in all honesty, that he would pay us cash for birds, those days are gone IMO.
As a stalker, you'll know the difficulty of venison disposal during this corona virus hoohaa. We've had this last 5 years ish with birds, solutions to every problem hopefully.
 
Has driven shooting had it's day? No. There are those shoots where your barrels go red and the bag can be horrendously large. But, ladies and gentlemen, they still easily fill the pegs (at exorbitant prices).

However, much more common by a country mile are those shoots which are run over a farm or two, they put anything from a hundred or two birds down to maybe a couple of thousand and are run by a syndicate, group of friends or the farmers. They generally get bags that can range from 100 on a good day to those that can be counted on one hand. And all the birds are accounted for.

So, before throwing the baby out with the bath water, consider the reality that the vast majority of shoots don't over-stock, their feeding and woodland regimes actually help wildlife, produce enjoyable sport, create friendships and camaraderie and the produce is all spoken for. Recent studies have also shown that such activities combat loneliness.

As for those big buck corporate shoots, perhaps a totally different matter. But then again, I wouldn't say that we should ban stalking because there's some who will go along a road and take pot shots at deer with an inappropriate rifle into a roadside wood.
 
This is a fair point. My concern however is that stalking may end up tarred with the same brush in the public eye as 1000 birds getting put in a pit
If you think stalking won't already be on their list you're mistaken, 20-30yrs ago even antis used to say they didn't mind shooting it was hunting they wanted banned, many shooters agreed with them thinking they were safe, now it's grouse shooting, that'll be gone next, then pheasants, deer, fishing...
 
The whole thing is about money!! No not the rich folk shooting big bags, that has happened since Edwardian times.
It's the common herd that's the problem, they have too much money. Offer anyone a pheasant, duck, rabbit or hare in my youth, they'd bite your hand off, because it was good food. Food consumed almost half (if not more) of everyone's income. It is now so cheap that it gives people extra disposable income and they can pick and choose what they eat. They then waste their saved money on various means of enjoyment.
They no longer have to worry and buy their tasteless chicken, cheap pork or nut cutlets because it's cheap and they can afford to dine out more.
If there was a food shortage and money was tight there would soon be a great wailing and gnashing of teeth for pheasants etc.
Spot on, bring back grinding poverty, malnourishment, rickets and polio.
Make the jumped up proletariat wear flat hats and grow a forelock to tug respectfully when one of their betters passes by.
And if they don't like it, hang them and flog them until they do.😄
 
Spot on, bring back grinding poverty, malnourishment, rickets and polio.
Make the jumped up proletariat wear flat hats and grow a forelock to tug respectfully when one of their betters passes by.
And if they don't like it, hang them and flog them until they do.😄
At least the fookin' chimneys 'd be clean...
 
Not after a good dose of Scarlet Fever...
Been there had that plus glandular fever, mumps, measles, chicken pox, Kraut measles, impatigo, nits, wurrmps, whooping cough, tonsilitis, NSU, arse end Lancaster, and all the other rights of passage of a child from my generation.
Half my mates got polio as well.
Now broken bones and cuts you wouldn't believe if I told you.😂😂
 
I shoot with 3 pals, we often do 100 bird/10 gun days together on pheasant, ducks and partridge. They don't take any birds home because they can't be arsed to dress them when you can buy a prepped bird for a fiver from the butcher.

Me, I literally walk out with as much of our share of the bag as I can carry, subject to the keeper approving! I'll gladly spend an evening covered in feathers and goop for £50-100's worth of free range game birds!

I'd like to see any wastage go to food banks and soup kitchens rather than being discarded, which is a disgrace.
 
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