Head Shooting?

[Chasey]

I like head shots because the deer drops dead on the spot. It also makes for a MUCH nicer graloch

I don't like chest shots as much because the deer pretty much always run and I find that a bit upsetting. I told a client once wed had a runner and it was on adjacent property not realising just how horrified she would be that the deer don't all drop dead on the spot where we shot them.

Ill take a chest shot if the head shot is not on and I need the deer for the cull, but I have let many walk when the head shot wasn't on and I didn't.

Walk and stalk ill chest shoot unless its an easy shot as ill be running a 308 or 6.5 55 and shooting off sticks

High seat, I gear up for a head shot with massive expansion very fast varmint rounds (70g BT) which will do catastrophic damage for off aim shots.
People say they take chest shots to increase their chances? OK and I use 70g BT to increase my chances of a successful head shot

Not a fan of 150g soft points for head shots, wrong tool for the job IMHO, 70g BTs are good knock down chest shots but make an awful mess so wrong tool for the job

Never understood the issue with moving targets. If you have observed enough deer you can asses the time to take the shot or not.

Also never realy understood the controvasy. If you don't like doing head shots, don't.

The problem is the people without the skill set or preparation taking on the shot. A problem I find in equal measure with chest shots. Sometimes I am baffled by shot placement and claimed clean missed shots?? How does this happen with modern equipment.

With more and more game dealers insisting on head shots its likely to become more the norm. I have been asked if id like to do parkland culls and they were all head shot only

 

[Dalua]

If you have DSC1 doe's that count and I'm being serious.

Does it count as what?

 

[Woodlander]

The last time a shot a roe buck in the noggin the then Chairman of the BSRC had kittens as its a non-scoring ring on the DJV target! Or put another way: K scores "NIL-POIS"!

K

No peas?

 

[potshotpat]

Does it count as what?

Does DSC 1 make you competent and I'm still being serious

 

[reloader54]

every target presents itself in a certain way and has to be assessed accordingly. your individual experience,ability, and true life confidence all play a part in whether you squeeze that trigger,and your chosen point of aim, personally If I don't feel good about the shot, Ill pass it up, there's always another day, I have no cull target to achieve and consider myself fortunate as such.

 

[Dalua]

Does DSC 1 make you competent and I'm still being serious

It can't 'make you competent', I don't think.
Generally, folk would recognise that passing it is evidence that a candidate has shown certain shooting and rifle-handling skills to the examiners' satisfaction - which is better, perhaps, than a poke in the eye. I have DSC1, and it didn't do me any harm.
It might well give useful confidence to a competent shooter, just as it might give unhelpful confidence to an incompetent shooter. These things are as useful as the certificate-holders are sensible to their significance, and lack of it.

'Know thyself' is the best advice, I think: but know thyself truly. Then shoot safely and accurately the right beast in the right place in the right conditions at the right range.

One shouldn't make confident and competent 100yd-max chest-shooting stalkers feel inadequate for not 'head-shooting'.

 

[Chasey]

DSC1 is so many rounds inside a 150mm dia kill zone so it cant qualifie you for a head shot.

Id want to see all rounds fired in an under dia 50mm kill zone for that

I did a shooting test for and "experienced" stalker a while back from a high seat about 80m on a roe cut out

Ignore the 243 shot with pen round it that was someone else who completely missed the target. This shooters missed first shot is the one just above the neck. The second shot was a kill zone shot but still a bit far back for me.




He asked me to demonstrate so I did.

We looked at the target and he said, you missed.

I suggested he looked at the head.

 

[Dalua]

I'd have been tempted to demonstrate a well-placed chest-shot, I think.
Realistic sometimes trumps aspirational. Perhaps I need to qualify my 'know thyself' comments by adding that 'know thy audience' might apply to certain circumstances.

 

[reloader54]

DSC1 is so many rounds inside a 150mm dia kill zone so it cant qualifie you for a head shot.

Id want to see all rounds fired in an under dia 50mm kill zone for that

I did a shooting test for and "experienced" stalker a while back from a high seat about 80m on a roe cut out

Ignore the 243 shot with pen round it that was someone else who completely missed the target. This shooters missed first shot is the one just above the neck. The second shot was a kill zone shot but still a bit far back for me.




He asked me to demonstrate so I did.

We looked at the target and he said, you missed.

I suggested he looked at the head.

that's a dead animal, right there, on paper, however there's always the chance a living creature will move its head at the most undesirable moment, many factors, especially years of experience and study of quarry will factor in this equation. the question is [in my case] can you live with the result if it all go,s wrong. experience over a period of time, and a natural ability to consistently hit the required spot will make a decision easier,It's just my way of thinking, watch your quarry, learn about them as much as possible without squeezing that trigger, then when you have adequate knowledge,, take that shot. good luck, and should it not go as planned, be sure to follow that beast and ensure its demise is as swift as you might like your own to be, devoid of suffering.

 

[foxdropper]

Devoid of suffering ffs you just blew its jaw off .Some folk on here thinking they are second cousin to billy the kid .
If best practice is so well practiced why do we have all these head shot advocates ,bet they all have the converted DSC1 and that the examiners on here are well proud of their protege lol.
Until we get away from heads shots as the norm not many people get my respect for what it’s worth .

 

[reloader54]

I don't think I was advocating head shots as the "norm" and the placement of the shot on the paper target as shown was not a "blow its jaw off " scenario, I openly stated if you are not 100% happy with the shot, and that would include your personal skill and experience level, then refrain from taking that shot.there's always another day, indeed the problems arise when often people try to exceed the their own abilities, these are living creatures, not paper. a mistake on paper is a harmless learning curve, to a living creature untold suffering.

 

[imnotrucknut]

 

[imnotrucknut]

Cant beat a good heart shot

 

[User00033]

The main motivation to head shoot any animal is to kill it instantly so it doesn't run. Secondary motivations are to protect the carcass and maximise the chance at other animals in the herd.

I make my choice where to shoot the animal based on a range of factors, all of which are specific to that situation and will never be exactly repeated as no situation is ever exactly the same as one preceding it. These factors have been debated before. Head shots account for a relatively small percentage of my deer, probably 1 or 2 in every 10 animals.

Lets go back to that main motivation, stopping the runner. The cull video posted a couple of days ago by sikahunting on Youtube. It stuck in my mind because with one exception, those animals were poleaxed on the spot - classic bang-flops - yet none were head shot. There was a mix of high shoulder and low neck shots, executed with devastating efficiency on big animals. What was shown in that video was pretty much "normal" for how me and my mates do things. We shoot a mix of targets - hilar, high shoulder, low neck, high neck and head. And we bang-flop nearly all our game.

The involvement of CNS guarantees you anchor your quarry and remove the risk of it running off your permission or into a god awful thicket. You don't need to hit the brain to achieve that. I am not trying to change anyone's mind, I don't care where you shoot your deer, but you can 99% guarantee a bang-flop with the high shoulder shot. And it is not a small target.

By all means head shoot if you want, shoot them in the crease if that's your thing. But the high shoulder gets relatively little exposure on your patch, and maybe it needs a little more. All the pictures of the CNS pathways I post, the brachial plexus in this case, its well worth reading up on and understanding. If you're new to this stuff and a bit conflicted about the ill feeling often attached to head shooting, consider the alternatives. From what I have read of the DSC material, this stuff isn't particularly well covered and I know from positive messages from some of the DSC trained SD members that their subtle changes to DSC taught points of aim have resulted in much higher instant collapses than they were getting before.

I've happily engaged in the head shooting debate before, been there done that. I think the generic alternative to the head shot that is usually proposed - the "chest" shot - fails to adequately debate the different mechansims of incapacitation and death that the chest shot can involve. I think its too broad a term. And all too often, it results in long runners.

Another video in sikahunting's library shows what happens when a shot is slightly misplaced - nothing is said of it in the video as the shooter is a paying client - but play the shot sequence back from 0:55 at 0.25x speed and watch carefully to see where the bullet hits... and then ask yourself "why did this animal run like a Chieftain tank?"



High, and too far back. Heard that before? Happens all the time.

 

[Dexter]

Cant beat a good heart shot

Oh but you can. A good heart shot deer can run a long way and could run off your land or so thick into cover that you can't retrieve it. That doesn't happen with a good head shot!

 

[foxdropper]

And deer run off with jaws hanging ,that does happen with head shots .

 

[finnbear270]

Reckon Malc will cull this one pretty soon.

 

[Dunwaters]

OK OK, Head shots are there for that once in a while "Just right " situation, but, ask yourself why you haven't got a head shot target on ANY of the proprietary paper test targets.?

So we can display our skill hitting the brain area even when it's not marked??

 

[sikamalc]

There are one or two on here making comments that have not even held an FAC for 5 years!! and yet have seen it all and done it all.

I think we are done on this thread again and I see little use for it to continue.