Heavy recoiling cals, Myth or not?

[finnbear270]

Accompanied Mrs Finnbear to the range yesterday, She had expressed an interest in shooting some of my rifles, I think She was a little bored with her .223 / .308 collection, , So, into the truck with the .270 without moderator, the best way to experience this cal for the first time, along with the 7mm WSM, with a mod, purely for the noise reduction, her immediate liking for the .270 was obvious, She reckons our close friend who shies away from .270 is a woos!!, On to the 7mm, OOPs!, length of pull is way off for her, so out with the screwy & off with the butt pad, a reduction of at least inch & a half, so She shoots this without the recoil pad!, Guess I'll have to try her with the .300 Winmag when it gets built.

 

[Conor1]

I have a dozen calibre from .22 to 375H&H. The wife can shoot them all without incident and has shot deer and boar with a 270 Win. Saying that I have a BBF in 30R Blaser that is a pig to shoot. The stock fits perfectly but I cannot control it. No flinching.........it kicks like a mule. Gave it to my friend who is using it now and he says the same. Give me a 300WM or H&H any day.

 

[Brithunter]

Sometime being more lightly built in handling recoil as the body rolls with it. Being heavier more resistance so the body absorbs more punishment.

For years I have wondered just why the straight case of the 458 Win Mag produces so much recoil. It's plain horrible especially prone which of course was required by those wonderful experts at Bisley ranges. I have always wondered how mine would be if it was re-chambered to 450 Rigby.

My BSA CF2 "Stutzen" in 270 seems to jump more than kick shown by the small witness marks where the comb hit the bottom of my glasses. Of course modern specs are smaller frames so perhaps this no longer happens.

 

[bewsher500]

I grew up with unmoderated .270's so eye relief and "hold on" were drilled into me as a kid
Its a vital part of the full bore experience as far as I am concerned! shooting low recoil CF's like the .222 is fun, in an air rifle kind of way...

Just got a 300WM and absolutely love it. Its not a sharp "kick" more of a "firm thump"

definitely an addiction!
need to see how I can get that .416 rigby I have been pining for!

 

[deerstalker.308]

It's a different ball game altogether with the larger calibres, I find my .375 a joy to shoot as it's weight is there to accommodate the recoil to a degree, that said, I recently put 18 rounds through it back to back to test out the talley QD mounts I bought to check they we're accurate after being removed and replaced etc, and I was glad to put the rifle away in its case after I was done I have to say! But then I am a southern jessie!

 

[Brithunter]

The 375 H&H is a different beast to the 458 Win Mag. Honestly wish I had found one when I was looking for the P-H 1100M or the 404 Jeffries that I nearly had. P-H weighted the 1100M under the butt pad and in the forestock with lead.

 

[libensvolenspotens]

A couple of weeks ago a friend was trying my .375H&H. His finger slipped from the front to rear triggers sending both barrels down range simultaneously! That rattled his fillings!

 

[Muir]

I built a custom 375 H&H elk rifle back when synthetic stocks were just coming into their own. The rifle weighed about 8 pounds with the scope and a full magazine yet the recoil was quite tolerable. The high heel of the stock about in line with the bore, put the recoil into the shoulder instead of over the top. Made a world of difference. A 1937 Remington Model 30 express in 30-06 with a droopy butt stock recoiled so ferociously that I abandoned the idea of 'keeping it original' and restocked it after the first range visit. The worse kicking rifle?? My old Remington Model 788 in 44 magnum. Absolutely brutal.~Muir

 

[6pt-sika]

For years I have wondered just why the straight case of the 458 Win Mag produces so much recoil. It's plain horrible especially prone which of course was required by those wonderful experts at Bisley ranges.

've owned 375 H&H and 416 Rem Mag's for over 10 years and shot both alot in both bolt actions and Ruger #1's !

Also did all the load work and sight in's for my buddies CZ550 375 H&H , 416 Rigby and 505 Gibbs . All from the bench none of that standing bench crap many do with double rifles .

Anyway about 2 or 3 years agao I got a good deal on a circa 70's LNIB Ruger #1H in 458 WIN MAG , had dies etc and made up some loads with 400 grainers and 510 grainers . That gun with iron sights from the bench would keep three at 50 yards in about an inch . However ............ after one shot it three times they wouldn't want to see it again the rest of the day !
That load of RL-22 and the Hornady 510 grain RN SP was very accurate but also a little harsh . To me it was a good bit worse then the 505 Gibbs .

Needless to say I still have the Ruger #1H;s in 375 H&H and 416 Rem Mag but the 458 Win Mag went down the road PDQ . Now I've gooten a bunch of Barnes 450 TSX bullets so I'm kinda thinking I need another Ruger in 458 Win Mag

One can always load them down a touch , pity I didn't think of that earlier

 

[Brithunter]

've owned 375 H&H and 416 Rem Mag's for over 10 years and shot both alot in both bolt actions and Ruger #1's !

Also did all the load work and sight in's for my buddies CZ550 375 H&H , 416 Rigby and 505 Gibbs . All from the bench none of that standing bench crap many do with double rifles .

Anyway about 2 or 3 years agao I got a good deal on a circa 70's LNIB Ruger #1H in 458 WIN MAG , had dies etc and made up some loads with 400 grainers and 510 grainers . That gun with iron sights from the bench would keep three at 50 yards in about an inch . However ............ after one shot it three times they wouldn't want to see it again the rest of the day !
That load of RL-22 and the Hornady 510 grain RN SP was very accurate but also a little harsh . To me it was a good bit worse then the 505 Gibbs .

Needless to say I still have the Ruger #1H;s in 375 H&H and 416 Rem Mag but the 458 Win Mag went down the road PDQ . Now I've gooten a bunch of Barnes 450 TSX bullets so I'm kinda thinking I need another Ruger in 458 Win Mag

One can always load them down a touch , pity I didn't think of that earlier

Ahhhh c'mon you know the Rigby cartridge makes sense especially in a single shot .

As I said I am still trying to fathom out just why the .458 Win mag is so harsh.

 

[Kalahari]

Funny isn't the way it works. You would think it would be simple physics and just looking at muzzle energy would tell you about it but that isn't true.

David.

 

[Muir]

've owned 375 H&H and 416 Rem Mag's for over 10 years and shot both alot in both bolt actions and Ruger #1's !

Also did all the load work and sight in's for my buddies CZ550 375 H&H , 416 Rigby and 505 Gibbs . All from the bench none of that standing bench crap many do with double rifles .

Anyway about 2 or 3 years agao I got a good deal on a circa 70's LNIB Ruger #1H in 458 WIN MAG , had dies etc and made up some loads with 400 grainers and 510 grainers . That gun with iron sights from the bench would keep three at 50 yards in about an inch . However ............ after one shot it three times they wouldn't want to see it again the rest of the day !
That load of RL-22 and the Hornady 510 grain RN SP was very accurate but also a little harsh . To me it was a good bit worse then the 505 Gibbs .

Needless to say I still have the Ruger #1H;s in 375 H&H and 416 Rem Mag but the 458 Win Mag went down the road PDQ . Now I've gooten a bunch of Barnes 450 TSX bullets so I'm kinda thinking I need another Ruger in 458 Win Mag

One can always load them down a touch , pity I didn't think of that earlier

What it that supposed to mean??~Muir

 

[6pt-sika]

What it that supposed to mean??~Muir

The guy that owns CH-4D was telling me on the phone one day that the ONLY way to shoot big guns meaning 416's and up was from a standing bench rest because you can roll with the recoil .

I kinda think if you can't handle it from a sitting position you have no buisness with it .

 

[6pt-sika]

Ahhhh c'mon you know the Rigby cartridge makes sense especially in a single shot .

As I said I am still trying to fathom out just why the .458 Win mag is so harsh.

In the Ruger #1H it seems the 416 REM MAG is a bit more rare shall we say . Also brass cost is a good deal less . When I was getting the Rigby brass for my friends 416 it was a tadd pricey compared to the Rem Mag brass !

Back to the 458 Win Mag I did fire a couple groups with a VZ-24 Mauser I believe it was with a Adams and Bennett 458 Win Mag barrel and a kinda bulky laminated stock . That one wasn't bad at all . My friend formerly of Pennsylvania and now of Wyoming built it for Pocono bear hunting and ended up shooting 3 or 4 Pocono whitetail deer with it using the Hornady 510 SN bullet !

 

[Brithunter]

Ahhh yes but reaming out .458 to 450 Rigby is fairly easy I understand and rifles in 458 are more common.

For lighter loads before we got dumped on witht hsi expanding bullet stupidity I used to use the Remington 405 grain HP bullets in the 458 for range practice.

 

[6pt-sika]

Ahhh yes but reaming out .458 to 450 Rigby is fairly easy I understand and rifles in 458 are more common.

Thats all good and fine however I "generally" do not like changing anything that I collect or accumulate . So 99.9% of the time I do not rechamber , rebarrel etc . Might change a trigger or something of that nature but I do not change the cartridge that the rifles chambered for . Kinda kills resale value to folks that collect factory original !

 

[Muir]

The guy that owns CH-4D was telling me on the phone one day that the ONLY way to shoot big guns meaning 416's and up was from a standing bench rest because you can roll with the recoil .

I kinda think if you can't handle it from a sitting position you have no buisness with it .

He is actually correct. This more duplicates field and conditions and is very important for sight regulation. Angle of departure is much different with these pumpkin chuckers than it is with their speedy small bore counterparts. When I was in the business, we has a special platform rigged for testing heavy recoiling rifles in the 460 Evans, 577 Nitro class. Not only was it much more pleasant to shoot but more precisely zeroed for actual field shooting. A real man doesn't lean into a left hook, he rolls away from it! ~Muir

 

[bewsher500]

He is actually correct. This more duplicates field and conditions and is very important for sight regulation. Angle of departure is much different with these pumpkin chuckers than it is with their speedy small bore counterparts. When I was in the business, we has a special platform rigged for testing heavy recoiling rifles in the 460 Evans, 577 Nitro class. Not only was it much more pleasant to shoot but more precisely zeroed for actual field shooting. A real man doesn't lean into a left hook, he rolls away from it! ~Muir

surely neither bench nor standing bench is the best way to practice if you will be shooting off hand or off sticks with large snorting, snarling, life beaters charging towards you?

The whole point of free standing shots with big calibres/recoil is that you roll and use whatever muzzle flip or rise to carry the weight in another direction.

all very well manning up to take a 458 Lott prone but it proves nothing about the rifle or the gives you any practice.

​(I keep banging on about people who shoot 1/2" groups off bipod and bag but then go out to shoot off sticks or freehand with little or no practice and can't replicate anything like the accuracy)

 

[Brithunter]

Sadly unless one is in the correct circle of "friends" then one is not allowed to shoot these rifles in any position other than prone due tot eh range regulations and rules. The NRA stopped any standing shooting except on the Running target ranges and the Three position one several decades ago.

When questioned as to why the answer was that we were lucky to be "allowed" to use such rifles as they had no place in proper target shooting. This despite the fact that it's they sporting and classic shooters whom actually keep Bisley open for the "Target Shooters" whom all seem to hibernate during the colder parts of the year. Yet everything must pivot around them and their single shot bang sticks. This is NOT what the NRA was formed for and they had really rather badly lost their way.

 

[bewsher500]

The NRA stopped any standing shooting except on the Running target ranges and the Three position one several decades ago.

There are stalkers competitions involving standing and shooting off sticks on lots of ranges, MOD and NRA sanctioned