Hogdon powder ban

[Eddie P]

No idea. The claim came from the World health Organisation

http://www.iarc.fr/en/media-centre/iarcnews/pdf/Q&A_Glyphosate.pdf

The EFSA said its not dangerous but their conclusions were based on tests carried out by the manufacturers of Glyphosate's. So make of that what you will.


I personaly have no in depth knowledge on this as its a product we use rarely for treatment of plant growth in masonry.

We now use Benzokonium Chloride and Boron (B10RH) as a masonory biocide but its 10X the cost. That said we find it far more effective on lichens than Glyphosate

The big one for us is Permethrin. Which was on World Health Organisation list of the sefest and most effective treatments???? Then it was banned Permethrin - Wikipedia

I still cant find the official details on why but I found data linking it to Thyroyd cancer and Hormonal defects.

Which makes me think the WHO talk a lot of bol@cks?

In March 2015, IARC classified glyphosate as “probably carcinogenic to humans” (Group 2A). This was based on “limited” evidence of cancer in humans (from real-world exposures that actually occurred) and “sufficient” evidence of cancer in experimental animals (from studies of “pure” glyphosate).

So no evidance at all.

Also the earlier drafts said there was no evidance at all.

 

[JabaliHunter]

I don’t see how the EU or REACH is at fault here. Manufacturers have had ages - years in fact - to register the active substances in their products with the ECHA. It’s not even particularly difficult to do. The fact that they haven’t just shows contempt for their customers in Europe. Anyway I’m glad I switched to Viht way back when everyone in the US was stockpiling varget and everything else under the sun...

 

[Chasey]

I don’t see how the EU or REACH is at fault here. Manufacturers have had ages - years in fact - to register the active substances in their products with the ECHA. It’s not even particularly difficult to do. The fact that they haven’t just shows contempt for their customers in Europe. Anyway I’m glad I switched to Viht way back when everyone in the US was stockpiling varget and everything else under the sun...

I completely agree

The USA are contemptuous of things like this and CE mark

I quick story for you. A USA product was saught after by divers in the UK but didn't have a CE mark so we went all sorts of covert roots to buying it. Evantualy the manufacturors decided there was a market in the EU afterall so they did the CE

And it failed.

And the issue it failed on presented a significant risk to divers.

Same thing happened on a simila product sold by a small start up in the EU. Their very popular and covertly purchased unit failed and ended up being redesigned with a component they couldn't get to pass safety standards simply removed.

I was very anti the expencive CE test procedures but I have to say (as an owner of both units) it was a very eye opening set of results.

 

[timbrayford]

In March 2015, IARC classified glyphosate as “probably carcinogenic to humans” (Group 2A). This was based on “limited” evidence of cancer in humans (from real-world exposures that actually occurred) and “sufficient” evidence of cancer in experimental animals (from studies of “pure” glyphosate).

So no evidance at all.

Also the earlier drafts said there was no evidance at all.

Glyphosate has just been relicensed for 5 years, a victory for commonsense over the EU commission.

 

[JabaliHunter]

Glyphosate has just been relicensed for 5 years, a victory for commonsense over the EU commission.

Didn’t the Commission grant the license? They are the ones who want to relicense it, but some member states oppose it.

 

[timbrayford]

Didn’t the Commission grant the license? They are the ones who want to relicense it, but some member states oppose it.

TBH I didn't look into the intimate details.

Glyphosate is a product that I use professionally, exclusively the "Biactive" formulation which is labelled as hazard free.

One of my concerns was that the alternatives were far more toxic and took longer to degrade in the environment and it seemed a shame to lose it on no more than a conjectural comment that it was "probably carcinogenic".

Unfortunately the EU seems to be rather prone to banning things without proper supporting balanced evidence, and getting back to the OP's Hogdgon powder ban it does make you wonder if it is really necessary.

 

[Apthorpe]

Of course it's not necessary on grounds of toxicity, but it is an issue of protectionism at least as much as anything else. The REACH directive is explicit in its aim to create advantages for European chemical manufacturers - by banning chemicals produced by competitors.

 

[ChesterP]

Of course it's not necessary on grounds of toxicity, but it is an issue of protectionism at least as much as anything else. The REACH directive is explicit in its aim to create advantages for European chemical manufacturers - by banning chemicals produced by competitors.

Exactly this.

The Glyphosate issue is unproven in that there has been no conclusive peer reviewed evidence to support the present claim for it's proposed prohibition, indeed the EU itself signed off the approval to use it all across the EU. It probably is carcinogenic, but that is no the same as "definitely" and to date there have been no threshold figures for exposure given to further evidence the claims nor in fact whether Roundup itself poses a significant risk to humans in its use (having previously been passed as safe, we can only conclude that it was proved safe as determined by criteria at the time, and until new evidence supersedes this, then it is reasonable to take the same view now).

As for powders, well there is some empathy with the view that manufacturers have had ample time to provide the information needed, and probably haven't done so in some cases because their evidence would show that their products wouldn't conform, or further, that home markets take the lion's share so why bother bowing to the EU. Personally, I'm in favour of reducing any significant risks to home loaders, shooters and the wider environment so welcome the specific proposals on powders. Glyphosate is another debate entirely and requires more evidence.

 

[Chasey]

Didn’t the Commission grant the license? They are the ones who want to relicense it, but some member states oppose it.

Yes it was but don't tell him that his head will explode

 

[Chasey]

Two-thirds of Europeans support a ban on glyphosate, the most widely used agricultural chemical in the world’s history, according to a new Yougov poll.


A prohibition on the herbicide ingredient was backed by three-quarters of Italians, 70% of Germans, 60% of French and 56% of Britons, in a survey of more than 7,000 people across the EU’s five biggest states.
Up to 150 MEPs in Strasbourg are expected to give urine samples today and tomorrow to see if they contain residues of the ingredient, ahead of a symbolic vote on prohibition this Wednesday.
Previous tests have found traces of the residue in the urine of people from 18 different European countries, and in over 60% of breads sold in the UK.
The Green MEP Bart Staes told the Guardian that the MEPs’ test was inspired by a recent “Urinal 2015” test which detected glyphosate in Germany’s 14 best-selling beers, stirring public unease.

So as brexit voters would say, we won get over it
---

Some 9.4m tonnes of glyphosate have been applied to crops since 1974, enough to spray half a pound of Roundup onto every cultivated acre of land on the planet

 

[timbrayford]

Two-thirds of Europeans support a ban on glyphosate, the most widely used agricultural chemical in the world’s history, according to a new Yougov poll.


A prohibition on the herbicide ingredient was backed by three-quarters of Italians, 70% of Germans, 60% of French and 56% of Britons, in a survey of more than 7,000 people across the EU’s five biggest states.
Up to 150 MEPs in Strasbourg are expected to give urine samples today and tomorrow to see if they contain residues of the ingredient, ahead of a symbolic vote on prohibition this Wednesday.
Previous tests have found traces of the residue in the urine of people from 18 different European countries, and in over 60% of breads sold in the UK.
The Green MEP Bart Staes told the Guardian that the MEPs’ test was inspired by a recent “Urinal 2015” test which detected glyphosate in Germany’s 14 best-selling beers, stirring public unease.

So as brexit voters would say, we won get over it
---

Some 9.4m tonnes of glyphosate have been applied to crops since 1974, enough to spray half a pound of Roundup onto every cultivated acre of land on the planet

The worse option by far were the extremely toxic diquat & paraquat that glyphosate replaced.

 

[Laurie]

I don’t see how the EU or REACH is at fault here. Manufacturers have had ages - years in fact - to register the active substances in their products with the ECHA. It’s not even particularly difficult to do. The fact that they haven’t just shows contempt for their customers in Europe. Anyway I’m glad I switched to Viht way back when everyone in the US was stockpiling varget and everything else under the sun...

Pardon! The primarily affected products are manufactured in Australia by a company which is owned by a European based multinational. Hodgdon Powder has gone to enormous lengths to obtain CE certification for every new product it has introduced over the last 30 years. During the major product shortages of recent years (still continuing in the USA for many of the more popular grades) the company has continued to supply us with a share of what they have been able to get hold of when the easy and profitable policy would have been to simply divert the lot to its American home market. Hodgdon has been instrumental too in General Dynamics Valleyfield's move to 'green' powders, in the form of IMR introductions, the 10th of which has just been launched, all submitted to the EU for certification as soon as supplies are available.

 

[timbrayford]

Pardon! The primarily affected products are manufactured in Australia by a company which is owned by a European based multinational. Hodgdon Powder has gone to enormous lengths to obtain CE certification for every new product it has introduced over the last 30 years. During the major product shortages of recent years (still continuing in the USA for many of the more popular grades) the company has continued to supply us with a share of what they have been able to get hold of when the easy and profitable policy would have been to simply divert the lot to its American home market. Hodgdon has been instrumental too in General Dynamics Valleyfield's move to 'green' powders, in the form of IMR introductions, the 10th of which has just been launched, all submitted to the EU for certification as soon as supplies are available.

Hopefully once we are free from the benefit of EU membership Hogdgon powders will once more be available to us

 

[Chasey]

Hopefully once we are free from the benefit of EU membership Hogdgon powders will once more be available to us

Your dreaming, we will still have to follow all the rules to stay within what ever the conditions for the new "free trade" agreement are

There is a chance we wont, but then there is a chance Ill divorce and re marry to Kiley Minogue and its a similar level of cirtianty

 

[timbrayford]

Your dreaming, we will still have to follow all the rules to stay within what ever the conditions for the new "free trade" agreement are

There is a chance we wont, but then there is a chance Ill divorce and re marry to Kiley Minogue and its a similar level of cirtianty

I think that the whole ethos behind leaving the EU is that we are no longer subject to their rules.

 

[Klenchblaize]

I think that the whole ethos behind leaving the EU is that we are no longer subject to their rules.

This Country is a world leader in H&S considerations and in adhering to such. Leaving the EU will NOT result in a reversal of this.

K

 

[Alantoo]

I think that the whole ethos behind leaving the EU is that we are no longer subject to their rules.

If 56% of Britons want a permanent ban on the herbicide, democratically Britons should be able to overturn the interfering EU's recent licensing of it in a few months...hope you will be happy that we have taken back control on that count at least.

Alan

 

[Chasey]

I think that the whole ethos behind leaving the EU is that we are no longer subject to their rules.

LOL don't hold your breath.

We need a trade deal and we will adopt all their rules and sign up to all the new ones we have no say any more in, in order to get it.

The current plan is to simply re write the EU legislation as is into British law. SO a few billion in leagal costs later we will be back where we started.

Just consider the logic. Would the UK make a stand against an environmental or health related issue?

There would also have to be a significant reduction in the rights of workers to make employers accept the risks or they will have people who develop cancer (1 in 3 of us) start claiming damages from employers using a product banned in the rest of the EU

Look at the drop in Lindain usage in the 1970s.-80s.

We dropped it in a heart beet after the EU linked it to Cancer. In Germany houses treated with Lindain had to have all the timber removed and burnt??? We just banned it but the industry phased it out years before the ban came to into effect

Ironicly the last company to still use lindain right up to the ban was Rentokill??

 

[timbrayford]

If 56% of Britons want a permanent ban on the herbicide, democratically Britons should be able to overturn the interfering EU's recent licensing of it in a few months...hope you will be happy that we have taken back control on that count at least.

Alan

Ok that's fine but please remind me, when was the referendum on banning Glyphosate, I seem to have missed it?

 

[JabaliHunter]

Pardon! The primarily affected products are manufactured in Australia by a company which is owned by a European based multinational. Hodgdon Powder has gone to enormous lengths to obtain CE certification for every new product it has introduced over the last 30 years. During the major product shortages of recent years (still continuing in the USA for many of the more popular grades) the company has continued to supply us with a share of what they have been able to get hold of when the easy and profitable policy would have been to simply divert the lot to its American home market. Hodgdon has been instrumental too in General Dynamics Valleyfield's move to 'green' powders, in the form of IMR introductions, the 10th of which has just been launched, all submitted to the EU for certification as soon as supplies are available.

I appreciate that - and perhaps contempt is not justified - but either the substances in the powders are safe (for health and environment) in which case they can/could be registered; or they are harmful, in which case all the more reason to use alternatives.