I remember when they banned the use of sassafras root in the US. It was a popular root for making teas and home-made rootbeers. In the study they fed doses of the active ingredient to rats at a level no human would ingest in a lifetime of daily use. Then the study only showed that these rats exhibited a "propensity' towards cancer. Despite such a skewed test they succeeded in banning all commercial use of sassafras. Private use was still allowed, however. What sense does that make? Unless you see it simply as a Governmental agency flexing its muscle? None.~Muir
Hogdon powder ban
- Thread starter rookstorm
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timbrayford
Well-Known Member
enfieldspares
Well-Known Member
Everything has a price. DDT was superbly effective at eradicating malarial mosquitoes. Unfortunately it eliminated a lot else besides that nobody wanted wiped out and so was banned. Outwith of Hodgdon powder I'm really missing old school Nitromors. Best stock stripper ever. The new green coloured stuff is next to useless.
Just a point or two of correction:
2-4-D and 2-4-5T are defoliants applied by spraying on the leaves. 2-4-5T took longer to break down than 2-4-D. 2-4-D kills broadleaf plants by causing uncontrolled growth, starving the limbs of water. It leaves grasses unaffected. 2-4-5T is a synthetic growth hormone, which in high doses ( spraying ) increases elongation growth, and cause leaves to be shed from trees. It has great effect, too, on dicots, so will kill large, fast-growing weeds like Johnson grass. 2-4-5-T has trace amounts of dioxin as a biproduct of the manufacturing process. "Agent Orange", a blend of 50% 2-4-D and 2-4-5T and other herbicides, was used by the British to defoliate jungles and grasses during the Malaysian emergency, and by the US Army in Vietnam to expose the DMZ and some trails from North Vietnam.
Bhopal was not related to either one. It was a release of hydrogen bromide gas and methyl isocyanate gas from a Union Carbide chemical plant in India, in the middle of the night. The plant produced an insectide, Sevin, which is used on vegetables, because it is a very safe treatment, breaking down very rapidly in sunlight. The gases, being heavier than air, and riding the descending thermal currents, flooded the town below, killing about 20,000 people. The release was not an accident. It was sabotage by Muslim radicals, who built an apparatus to connect to the fittings in the process piping ( which had incompatible fittings and hose lengths in order to make a accidental connection impossible. ) Some, or all, of the saboteurs were killed by gas leaks.
ChesterP
Well-Known Member
Yes, I believe so.
Odders
Well-Known Member
"The release was not an accident. It was sabotage by Muslim radicals, who built an apparatus to connect to the fittings in the process piping ( which had incompatible fittings and hose lengths in order to make a accidental connection impossible. ) Some, or all, of the saboteurs were killed by gas leaks."
A totally discredited conspiracy theory put about by Union Carbide to try to reduce their complicity in the accident and reduce how much it would cost them in compensation.
I take it you're writing your post from the set of the faked moon landings and in the company of the US citizens who blew up the twin towers
A totally discredited conspiracy theory put about by Union Carbide to try to reduce their complicity in the accident and reduce how much it would cost them in compensation.
I take it you're writing your post from the set of the faked moon landings and in the company of the US citizens who blew up the twin towers
Jagare
Well-Known Member
What a load of tosh. You'll be telling us next it was Liberals, pinko's or the Democrat party that caused the disaster . It could never be a company that put earning money above human life?
any facts to back this claim up? the only things I can find are based on the local Production Manager defence argument during the court case against Union Carbide, and a Wikipedia theory talks of a disgruntled employee being behind it, nothing on Muslim radicals?
Yes, there was an independent report ( book length ) by a chemical engineer, who was hired by the courts as an independent investigator. I will try to find a copy online, but this was all before scanners and the Internet, of course.
My post is from my personal knowledge. I was an internal consultant at the corporate level, for Union Carbide, over all automated manufacturing new technologies worldwide. So I worked with similar experts in chemical engineering, nuclear engineering ( UCC ran Oak Ridge National Laboratory ), computer science, industrial engineering, construction ( we built the Alaska pipeline), etc. So we worked together and discussed all sorts of things. And we reported directly to Warren Anderson, president of Union Carbide.
The government of India arrested Mr. Anderson and essentially held him for ransom. They were anxious to cover up any sabotage for political reasons, and also wanted to reach into the deep pockets of Union Carbide, which at the time was about the 10th largest corporation in America. I am quite familiar with what actually happened in other infamous industrial disasters, such as Three Mile Island, Chernobyl, Fukushima, .... and what did not happen, but what the public believes.
My father was product manager for Shell Chemical agricultural pesticides, so I have a smattering of direct knowledge of DDT, 2-4-5T, and many exotic neurotoxins and enzyme deactivators which were non-polluting but frightening to the public and were banned in the 1960s. We used all those things on our large working farm.
My post is from my personal knowledge. I was an internal consultant at the corporate level, for Union Carbide, over all automated manufacturing new technologies worldwide. So I worked with similar experts in chemical engineering, nuclear engineering ( UCC ran Oak Ridge National Laboratory ), computer science, industrial engineering, construction ( we built the Alaska pipeline), etc. So we worked together and discussed all sorts of things. And we reported directly to Warren Anderson, president of Union Carbide.
The government of India arrested Mr. Anderson and essentially held him for ransom. They were anxious to cover up any sabotage for political reasons, and also wanted to reach into the deep pockets of Union Carbide, which at the time was about the 10th largest corporation in America. I am quite familiar with what actually happened in other infamous industrial disasters, such as Three Mile Island, Chernobyl, Fukushima, .... and what did not happen, but what the public believes.
My father was product manager for Shell Chemical agricultural pesticides, so I have a smattering of direct knowledge of DDT, 2-4-5T, and many exotic neurotoxins and enzyme deactivators which were non-polluting but frightening to the public and were banned in the 1960s. We used all those things on our large working farm.
JabaliHunter
Well-Known Member
EVERYTHING is polluting when it gets into the wrong place...
Must be lovely living in a world of black and white...
Must be lovely living in a world of black and white...
I am not sure what that means, or to whom it is addressed.
If you are referring to the neurotoxins which I described as "non-polluting", I mean that they are so volatile that they break down into organic constituents normally found in nature within thirty minutes of exposure to ultraviolet radiation from the Sun. So you could spray an orchard, for example, kill everything in it, and an hour later, pick an apple off the tree and eat it with no harm to yourself. Personally, I find that to be a superior insecticide to something which takes hours or days to systemically kill insects and lingers for days, months or years in the soil and water, and leaves the treatment location and control of the applicators. And, if you are faced with an infestation of army worms or locusts, which will eat an entire field down to the ground in one day, you need to be able to respond immediately with something which kills immediately.
But lest you form an image of me as some technocrat only interested in maximum production of cosmetically perfect retail foods, I prefer imperfect-looking food with rich taste, and am willing to let the insects and birds share some of my organic garden. Among other endeavors, I own a company which sells a plant growth stimulant composed entirely of organic materials, which combined in a recipe and process, stimulate plant growth, hardiness, and improve taste of the fruit, enabling farmers to grow crops - especially so-called "organic" foods - with less fertilizer, water and pesticides, while increasing yields from 30 to 90% per acre.
interesting...
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