How Do I Update My FAC With Purchases?

Savage 110 Carbon Tactical - Unmatched Precision - Viking Arms
Toxster

Toxster

Well-Known Member
In the process of purchasing my first ever rifle. This is being done at a distance with the rifle coming to a third party RFD for inspection. I'll then send the money and the rifle will be released when the RFD gets confirmation of the payment.

Now my FAC says on page 3 - "Instructions to anybody who sells...firearms....to the holder of this certificate." "If you are selling a firearm which will be posted to another dealer for the buyer to collect in person you should complete this table and notify the police. The dealer who actually hands over the firearm should not complete the table or notify the police."

So....how does someone I'm not meeting enter details on my certificate...? I'm surely not meant to send him my FAC am I?

Do I then send my FAC back to the police for update or do they issue a new version?
 
The firearms dealer you are collecting the rifle from will update your certificate but you still have to inform your local constabulary.
 
Toxster,

That's a new one on me. Why not call your firearms department and ask them what they would like you to do? After all, it's them that will be handling the paperwork.

​Stan
 
daw said:
The firearms dealer you are collecting the rifle from will update your certificate but you still have to inform your local constabulary.
Click to expand...

You would think so, but it explicitly says they shouldn't....:???: Will have to ask my FEO as suggested.
 
"So....how does someone I'm not meeting enter details on my certificate...? I'm surely not meant to send him my FAC am I?"

Yes, to comply fully with the guidance you send the FAC to the seller who then enters the details and sends it back to you. The rifle then goes to your local RFD. Your local RFD checks that's it's on your FAC and releases the rifle to you in person.

It does sound a little daft but this is how many police forces insist that it be done (Norfolk being one of them). Other forces are happy that the rifle goes to your local RFD as a dealer to dealer transfer, then the local dealer does the paperwork with your FAC and does the notification.

I can't see any advantage in doing it the official way, perhaps the revised guidance sections being published now may change things.
 
M275 said:
...Yes, to comply fully with the guidance you send the FAC to the seller who then enters the details and sends it back to you. The rifle then goes to your local RFD. Your local RFD checks that's it's on your FAC and releases the rifle to you in person...
Click to expand...

Certainly seems that way. So basically I am using a third party RFD as I have no established trust with someone I've just contacted on the internet...I'm then meant to send this stranger my FAC...:doh:
 
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You should listen to daw.
When the sellr hands the rifle over to His RFD it gets entered on to that RFD books. The rifle will be then sent to your RFD as he will be accepting it it will be on his records.
So quite simply he enters it onto your FAC you then inform your Firearms dept that you bought the rifle from him simples. You do not send your FAC in the post to anyone.

This is how it works done it several times as buyer and seller.
ATB Multiman
 
The seller is an RFD, so is covered by the term "another dealer." That said, I'm sure you're right and this is how it will happen.
 
Toxster,

Just looked at your OP and at the time you check the rifle physically you will not have purchased it.

If you choose to purchase it then take the lead from the RFD who will be holding it and, once paid for to the original vendor, hand it over to you.

I suspect the RFD and you will be in the same area so he should know how local plod operate.

​Stan
 
No idea why you are making things so complicated. I have done this loads of times without any hassle. The distant RFD sends the rifle to your local RFD. When you collect it the local RFD completes the transfer by filling in your FAC. You don't send your FAC anywhere, the details of the purchase only get printed on whenever the Police next have reason to reissue it for example at renewal or variation.
Who and how you pay is entirely between yourselves but generally it is appropriate to pay the seller for the firearm and then bung the local RFD a drink for helping you out.
 
Toxster

M275 is spot on, the seller is the remote RFD so he enters it on your certificate. Your RFD merely hands it over to you on production of your certificate. I shouldn't feel concerned about sending your certificate after all they are registered firearm dealers.

​Frank
 
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A few months ago I bought a .223 rifle from someone off this site who lived Devon way. He sent it via his local RFD to my RFD Chris Tanner, Norfolk Sporting Guns at Wymondham. I went and collected it from Chris who completed my certificate. He also printed off a form for me to inform Norfolk Constabulary.
Nice and simple, job done!
 
I not 100% sure which is the correct answer, and reading this thread, just makes things more confusing !

What would be helpful, is for people offering advice to state whether they are offering either "Fact", or "Opinion".

Personally, I'd be asking the two RFD's, as I'd expect them to know the correct answer !
 
Frank Homes said:
Toxster

M275 is spot on, the seller is the remote RFD so he enters it on your certificate. Your RFD merely hands it over to you on production of your certificate. I shouldn't feel concerned about sending your certificate after all they are registered firearm dealers.

​Frank
Click to expand...

As has already been said, your receiving RFD will do all the paperwork, that's what an RFD transfer charges are for. Don't send your certificate off, there is no need. Your RFD is receiving it on your behalf, he will take it in, book it in to his system, effectively the Rifle then becomes his, you then buy it from him, he then enters it/transfers it on to your certificate and it becomes yours, then just inform your local FD.
Think about it, If what you say is true, you would have to send your certificate off to any supplier of an RFD, prior to buying that product from your RFD, I really do wonder how some people get it so wrong.

Example - I bought a DM80 Sound Moderator (Same FAC rules as a rifle) from Dave Mercer and asked him to post it too my RFD, it arrived at my RFD, he books it in, I go and collect it, he then puts it on my Certificate, I inform my FD, simple as that, I did not need to send my certificate to Dave in the first place as he is not dealing with me on an FAC level, he is dealing with my RFD.
 
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a drink for the RFD.....I was quoted £25 for the handling transfer paperwork.

​I do not like the idea of letting my FC out of my possession
 
Mutley

You claim i have got it so wrong but i haven't. It all stems from the definition in S. 32 of the 1997 Act which precludes dealer 2 entering it onto table 2 of the certificate because he has no right to do so. He is not the seller, he does not own it, he is not lending nor giving it but he is Transferring it and therefore he is bound by s 3 (2) of the 1968 Act which requires him to see the person's certificate before parting with possession.

Frank
 
Frank Homes said:
Mutley

You claim i have got it so wrong but i haven't. It all stems from the definition in S. 32 of the 1997 Act which precludes dealer 2 entering it onto table 2 of the certificate because he has no right to do so. He is not the seller, he does not own it, he is not lending nor giving it but he is Transferring it and therefore he is bound by s 3 (2) of the 1968 Act which requires him to see the person's certificate before parting with possession.

Frank
Click to expand...

Oh well, looks like me, everyone I know, every RFD I've ever dealt with and every Police force that I've ever dealt with have been getting it wrong for all these years. Suprised we haven't all been locked up by now.

One thing I would add is that the only time my FAC is being entrusted to Royal Fail is when its going to or from Police HQ and then its done reluctantly.
 
Glyn1

Is this not what the Gun Trade Association advocate? I can't check because their website is down at the moment.

​Frank
 
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