How do you train a puppy?

Beowulf

Well-Known Member
Hi Folks,
I'm looking at getting my first deer dog this year and I would really like to know how to start training it from day one. It will be a house dog rather than a kennel dog, but I will be getting a large cage for it to sleep in.

I am hoping that one of you fine people could write an article on basic dog training? Any offers?


Many thanks in advance. Steve.F ;)
 

Muddy

Well-Known Member
deer dog

you already have the very man as your buddy in STONE if you follow his guidance you wont go far wrong ,i will put in my two pennarth . But first of all do you want a dog as a constant companion every time you go out hes there do you want him for any other use rough shooting picking up ect or do you just want a dog when you get in the **** and have lost one ,these are normaly kept in vehicle untill you need them There are that many options and breeds to choose from now its a minefield .Obviously you will talk to others and get feed back , STONES dog day should be good as you should get to see an assortment of dogs on the day hopefully it will happen as we already have feed back on this one MUDDY
 

Beowulf

Well-Known Member
Hi Muddy,
I'm looking for a dog that will become my shadow at all times. When I'm on the site I expect to be able to reach down and pat his head. When I'm out on the deer I want him at my heel. So I need to know what type of dog I require to behave in that fashion. He will be a deer dog as I don't really do much bird hunting, and of course 'He' may turn out to be a 'She'.

I'm looking at GWPs, Labs and Bavarians. That's my short list...er so far. :lol:

Many Thanks mate.
 

Muddy

Well-Known Member
deer dogs

i entirely agree with you no your assessment but labs seem to come half trained from the of .I have had three labs that would work deer and a terrier i still have a lab and a terrier both are now 11 so a bit past it .I now work a GSP pure german blood lines he is the bees knees but crazy i use him for all kinds of shooting wildfowling pheasant shooting picking up dogging in everything you can imagine . this dog is with me at all times as i keeper on two shoots and from july on wards he is out every day with me . I did consider a wirehair but this one was free the previous owners still kicking himself for letting him go
 

Jagare

Well-Known Member
If i was just getting a dog for deer i would go for the Bavarian. As pete E said the GWP can be a bit of a handfull. The teckles are very good. Nice to have around the house but they will bugger off and start hunting if you take your eye of them. I hunt with mine so no problem.
 

mudman

Well-Known Member
Hungarian Wirehaired Viszla.

Complete all rounder, always willing to please, fantastic temperament.



 

Beowulf

Well-Known Member
Thanks for all the advice Gentlemen, I certainly need to sit down and have a think about my options. Any dog I have will need to fit in with my two lurchers and two Jack Russells
.
Hi Mudman,
Well that's a new one on me mate! I have never seen a dog like that. I had better get on to Googgle and get some info. :D
 

irishgun

Well-Known Member
Pete E said:
Not to start a ****ing match, but GWP's have a reputation for being a bit sharp and hard headed, especially the ones with strong German blood lines and are perhaps not the best dog for a novice to start with.

GWP's can and do make for an excellent deer dog, but they can have "issues" around kids, strangers and other dogs/pets..The recommendation I had was to look at GSP's and Labs as they tend to be a bit more social when not being worked and still make excellent deer dogs..

Having seen assorted deer dogs of various breeds over the years , I would tend to agree with this assessment although I have to say I have always had a hankering for a GWP myself..
the gwp are the only dog i would have for stalking ,my bitch in 8 in a few weeks she will pick on deer from long ranges and point them from 100 yrds down they are a very friendly dog they love company .the only thing with them in no grey areas black or white yes or no . i have a pup in training at the moment so its all good fun hear ,i like bitchs there smaller and easy the manage .best of luck
 

Jagare

Well-Known Member
Training a deer tracking dog


Beowulf asked for tips on training a deer for tracking. So here is training a dog Swedish style.

In the picture there are the things i use when training. first the blood. I buy mine from the supermarket (cow blood) and i water it down 50% with water. I put it in a washing up liquid bottle and keep it in the freezer.

The hoof on a piece of string for laying the scent of deer.

Then there is the harness. I like the harness better than a collar as i think it does not restrict the dogs breathing like a collar does.

The tracking line. I have a fancy one in leather but i always use the plastic one as it slides over obstacles and does not get so snagged up on branches and bushes. The tracking lead is so usefull as you have control over the dog. If you have ever tracked a gut shot deer or one with a leg wound with a free running dog you will know how the deer will keep getting up and running on. With the dog on the long lead it is possible to get a shot at the deer before it runs of again.

The bits of coloured tape on plastic cloths pegs. These are used to mark the start of the trail and which way the trail go's. I use two tapes of different colours when i make a rightangled turn with no blood. If you are like me a forgetfull old git its easy when you come to do the trail, 8 hours later to remember where you started and which way you went.
Then we have the tracking device as advertised by a firm that sells tracking gear in the UK. Great bit of kit if you are hunting deer with a dog like i do. But a waste of money for tracking.

Teaching your dog basic obedience you can learn from any gun dog training book. Basic obedience should be taught the same as if you were training any other gun dog.

Deer carcases and deer skin have no part in the training of a tracking dog till the very later part of training. So eat the deer and make your something nice in buck skin with the skin.

A good thing is let the dog have a deer hoof as a play thing for a short period every day. Not letting him eat it.

To start training the pup to track take the blood and sprinkle plenty of blood at the start of the trail. Dragging the hove with the string behind you lay a 50 yard strait trail dripping blood as you go. When you get to the end of the trail tie the hoof to a bush or something so that fox and the like can't run of with the hoof. I hold my finger over the nozzle of the washing up liquid bottle so i can easily regulate how much blood you let drip out. Get the puppy and sit him down a bit away from the trail. put on the harness and lead. Take the puppy forward to the start where you have sprinkled the blood and say go seek or what ever command you choose. Give plenty of encouragement and the pup should follow the trail.
let the puppy play with the hoof when it finds it. after a short while say dead to the pup and take the hoof away. I put the hoof back in the freezer and they can be used many times.
After the a while you can make the trail longer and more complicated but don't rush the pup. It takes months to get them up to a good standard.
You can put rightangle turns into the trail and just drag the hoof and use no blood for 10-15 mtrs. Also the period between you laying the trail and tracking can get longer and longer. Within 4 months of training your pup should be doing 500mtr tracks 8 hours old.
In Viltspår (tracking) trials they use 1/3 of a Ltr blood over 600 mtrs. Ive got my little taxen bitch up to the 600mtrs and i use just a fraction of that amount of blood. It pays to use less and less blood as the pup gets better at tracking. That way they are more focust on the scent of the hoof.

Hopefully you will end up with a real tracking dog and not a dog that will find deer that you could have found your self.
 

Thar

Well-Known Member
Beowolf

Pete assessment of the GWP (Drahthaar) may have some truths with the German breed lines (they seem to prize the more aggressive dogs) however if you look at the Danish lines you will find these have had the aggressiveness breed out of them and are much easier dog to handle, for the record the Danish established the GWP club in 1928. So they have been on this for a long time.

The retrievers and tracking dogs/hounds Bavarians Teckles ect while will find you a deer that has run are in fact only doing ¼ the job of a deer dog. Most deer you shoot I assume drop on the spot and may be one in 10 run and you need a dog to find.

A pointer will be working for you all the time you are stalking, I have used mine on the hill to find deer both red and roe and on clear fell to locate deer that are lying down in new plant were they are all most impossible to see.

A Labrador may be a bit easier to train and if you are not a committed dog man then it may be better suited to you rather than a better dog for the job.

My friend a professional stalker has a lab’ breed from a line of lab’s that have been used for deer work for years and he freely admits than when the chips are down the GWP is the better tool provided you as the owner are committed to the animal.

Lab’ or GWP which one would depend on the commitment and ability of the handler.

Best rgds

Tahr.
 

sikamalc

Administrator
Site Staff


There is only one breed that is specifically breed for blood spooring and nothing else, and thats a Bavarian. Here is a picture of my Bavarian, he is now just over 2 years old, has 4 deer retrieves to his credit, all dead but runners that died in thick cover. His father is the Polish Field trial champion, and his name is Todd (sometimes known as Todd the sodd)

Bavarians are very one person dogs, love children and are very faithfull.

And for a change his lipstick is not showing :lol:

I agree with PeteE about the two books. I have both and they are excellant. If you are going to get a dog for blood spooring deer and deer work make sure you stick with this and nothing else, otherwise it confuses the dog. If you want a Bavarian I can point you in the right direction of a possible litter, but as always they are not cheap to buy, but then you only get what you pay for with dogs like this. NO not Jan Andrews either, you will need to sell your sole to satan to afford to buy a dog from her :eek:
 

MarkH

Well-Known Member
Hi Malc
Sorry to rain on your parade but there is another dog specifically bread for blood tracking that is the 'Daddy' of the Bavarian :lol: :lol: :lol:

. The Hannoverian is in the foreground
Bigger by design for those difficult momnets with reds,sika and pigs.

I know, you thought it was all safe and Mark had disappeared. I may even post a pic of a copper bullet soon :evil:

Regards

Mark
 

sikamalc

Administrator
Site Staff
No parade to rain on here Mark H, just stating the facts. My Bavarian has been bought up on Sika, and up to now he has done the business.

Is the Hanovarina breed excepted by the Kennel Club? I only ask as the Bavarian breed was only accepted about 3 or 4 years ago i believe.

Although Hanovarians are slightly bigger, much depends on the individual dog itself after all if you send in any dog on a wounded Sika Stag, if you are not careful you will have an injured dog or worse still a dead one.
 

Thar

Well-Known Member
sikamalc said:
all if you send in any dog on a wounded Sika Stag, if you are not careful you will have an injured dog or worse still a dead one.
True, what you need is a athletic, agile dog to keep it’s self out of harm when the stag turns, not a big lumbering hound. ;)

Shall we start a new thread to dis each others dogs,, in a constructive manner of cause. :evil:

Mark I thought you had left us.

Best rgds

Tahr.
 

MarkH

Well-Known Member
Hi Malc
My bitches are working pets and I dont send them in on any wounded game as I never taught then to bite and hold onto anything with a house full of young kids.
If need be I can use my 45 cal to shoot through the tree :lol: :confused: :eek: :evil:

No KC registration for Hannoverians yet there are not enough in the country.
Just a note about dogs with papers.
In the UK its KC registration which means its a pure breed.
On the continent for the Bloodhounds it means blood hounds whos parents have passed working tests and are pure breed.

Hi Thar

Just hovering around the sites stirring up trouble :evil:

Mark
 

Beowulf

Well-Known Member
Well I'm certainly learning something today. I still haven't decided on a dog, but after seeing Todd work I really do like the Bavarians. Its going to be tricky deciding. :confused:

Thanks for all your advice. ;)
 

Thar

Well-Known Member
MarkH said:
Hi Malc
My bitches are working pets and I dont send them in on any wounded game as I never taught then to bite and hold Mark
Some working deer dog you have their Mark, if you never use it on wounded deer. :eek:

I really have to ask what correlation there is between holding and or killing wounded deer and biting children. The two are completely different, the dog has the brain to work this out even if its handler and do Gooding RSPCA types don’t.

My own GWP will let my nephews and nieces aged 4 to 10 pull her every which way try to ride her like horse ect and never has she shown the slightest indication of even a growl.

Aboard I have seen my mates hardest most aggressive pig hunting dogs, being the softest most tolerant dogs while having kids crawl all over them.

Best rgds

Tahr
 

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