HSE lead ammo proposals - FAQs and updates

grahamch

Well-Known Member
There's a lot of chatter on here about 28s and 410s, how many folk actually own or use one? Not that many I suspect, are folk over reacting I wonder?

Would also be interesting to see how many folk actually use old UK made side by sides and are moaning that they are now allegedly redundant and worthless. There are several 2.5 inch steel loads on the market and the Danes have been doing it for years.

Yes stupid extreme/high bird shoots may fold but that would probably be a good thing for the overall public perception of shooting.
 
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Bowland blades

Well-Known Member
There's a lot of chatter on here about 28s and 410s, how many folk actually own or use one? Not that many I suspect, are folk over reacting I wonder?

Would also be interesting to see how many folk actually use old UK made side by sides and are moaning that they are now allegedly redundant and worthless. There are several 2.5 inch steel loads on the market and the Danes have been doing it for years.

Yes stupid extreme/high bird shoots may fold but that would probably be a good thing for the overall public perception of shooting.
The answer is 410nand 28 bore loaded with tss are the new high goose load on the saltings . Likewise while bismuth is expensive in std game loads when your loading the 410 and 28 with bismuth your loading around half the amount you would in a std 12 bore load
Steel works fine in the 20 bore but again you have tss and that will give you greater ballistic ability than a 12 bore with lead ( if you can afford a proper high pheasant day I doubt the extra cost of tss is going to make you weak at the knees
 

Liveonce

Well-Known Member
There's a lot of chatter on here about 28s and 410s, how many folk actually own or use one? Not that many I suspect, are folk over reacting I wonder?

I own two in 28ga and one in .410, have used both on try clay pigeon shooting events the club put on, for the young and some ladies in attendance.

Then enjoy shooting the 28gauge myself especially the auto, great in a pigeon hide or a walk round, also my grandchildren use it on the clays.
The over and under in 28ga I have also previously used it on a small DIY game shoot, but no longer in the syndicate.

Not a great fan of the .410 would not miss that anywhere near as much as the 28gauge.

Home load for the 28gauge.
 

Liveonce

Well-Known Member
The answer is 410nand 28 bore loaded with tss are the new high goose load on the saltings . Likewise while bismuth is expensive in std game loads when your loading the 410 and 28 with bismuth your loading around half the amount you would in a std 12 bore load
Steel works fine in the 20 bore but again you have tss and that will give you greater ballistic ability than a 12 bore with lead ( if you can afford a proper high pheasant day I doubt the extra cost of tss is going to make you weak at the knees
TSS is also expensive, that and bismuth will find a niche use but cannot be considered as an everyday replacement for lead shot.

lets throw game shooting under the bus after all their is simulated game shooting with clays now and then save lead for where it is needed.
 

enfieldspares

Well-Known Member

T.eddie

Well-Known Member
Just had the below from the countryside alliance
Nice to see another org state they are part of it, funny I've not seen much mention of them on this thread though

Chief Executive of the Countryside Alliance, Tim Bonner, writes:

Two years ago the Alliance, along with eight other rural organisations, called for the voluntary phase out of lead shot in live quarry shooting within five years. We did so because of the growing evidence of the impact of lead shot on the environment beyond wetlands where its use is already restricted and, quite frankly, because it is the right thing to do.
 

Liveonce

Well-Known Member
Just had the below from the countryside alliance
Nice to see another org state they are part of it, funny I've not seen much mention of them on this thread though

Chief Executive of the Countryside Alliance, Tim Bonner, writes:

Two years ago the Alliance, along with eight other rural organisations, called for the voluntary phase out of lead shot in live quarry shooting within five years. We did so because of the growing evidence of the impact of lead shot on the environment beyond wetlands where its use is already restricted and, quite frankly, because it is the right thing to do.

however the HSE has gone one step further and their proposal is a total ban on lead, has he commented on that i wonder.
 

Rewulf

Well-Known Member
'because it is the right thing to do.'
Why does that statement sound like someone told him to say that ?
Its the right thing to start on plastics in shooting first, as they are far more harmful/polluting, yet the shooting orgs seem uninterested.
What about Norway bringing lead back ? Is it not so toxic any more, why bother if steel is just as good ?

Is lead really a problem, surely before a decision like this is taken , a definitive study over several years should be undertaken , not some vague estimations from a decade ago ?
What did BASC used to say ? 'No evidence, no change' ?
Where is the new evidence ?
 

Bowland blades

Well-Known Member
TSS is also expensive, that and bismuth will find a niche use but cannot be considered as an everyday replacement for lead shot.

lets throw game shooting under the bus after all their is simulated game shooting with clays now and then save lead for where it is needed.
Face facts , its happening ! All we must fight for is time . There are answers to all these things as I point out what we haven't got is a lot of time !
Hence its time to pull together with a positive frame of mind . There's a hell of a lot tss required in a 410 or 28 bore , steel is just fine away from trees and beaters / dogs . Copper bullets in my experience are actually better than jacketed lead that correct BETTER !
Expensive shot ? Use a smaller bore and use the higher cost shot or stick with steel in the std 12 bore gun
Loads of ways we can gain here but all some folks can do is moan
If you really want to moan direct that energy into the great electric car scam because it seems here is something we really are being lead into with poor evidence. There is good reason why every organisation involved in shooting opted for the voluntary 5 year change away from lead
 

Rewulf

Well-Known Member
If you really want to moan direct that energy into the great electric car scam because it seems here is something we really are being lead into with poor evidence. There is good reason why every organisation involved in shooting opted for the voluntary 5 year change away from lead
Really ? Is there a good reason not one of those orgs opted to ask its memberships opinion on the matter before signed US up to it ?
Loads of ways we can gain here but all some folks can do is moan
How do we gain ?
Tell me one positive about this, we will be losing ammo choice , certain guns will be obsolete, we will lose participating shooters..... Ah ! Now I see a positive, firearms licencing might be a bit quicker to provide the service theyre meant too, once weve lost large numbers of licence holders !
Result.:lol:
 

Liveonce

Well-Known Member
just a sound bite from somebody who appears to know little about shooting, but should know better, he should keep his comments to himself.

“Expensive shot ? Use a smaller bore and use the higher cost shot or stick with steel in the std 12 bore gun”

Not all use a 12ga even for clays, due to being sensitive to recoil, due to medical conditions and then disabled shooters are we going to just say to these people pay up or go away?

Shooting is or was an inclusive sport for all not just those who can use a 12ga.
 

enfieldspares

Well-Known Member
Really ? Is there a good reason not one of those orgs opted to ask its memberships opinion on the matter before signed US up to it ?

How do we gain ?
Tell me one positive about this, we will be losing ammo choice , certain guns will be obsolete, we will lose participating shooters..... Ah ! Now I see a positive, firearms licencing might be a bit quicker to provide the service theyre meant too, once weve lost large numbers of licence holders !
Result.:lol:
I can see it now. I can see it now. The future with non-lead that will safeguard our pastime, our livelihood, our way of life. "BASC welcomes the reduction in the time involved in processing renewal of SGC applications (because of the large numbers of people who have left the sport now that their shooting has become unaffordable for them)." None of this throwing shooters under the bus (to save the "big bag boys" and the Frankenstein BGA in which BASC has punted £250,000 - and where was the members' vote on that) nonsense will cause attacks on what we do to cease or divert the efforts of Mr Packham et al. It is mere Danegeld. There will ne no "New World in the Morning."

 

Bowland blades

Well-Known Member
What will that be made out of? There is no suitable material on the planet for this.

Bismuth is really a very rare metal. It cannot be a wide-scale replacement for anything for the simple and unchangeable reason that very little of it exists on Earth and the entire global production of the element is very small - far less than silver, for example. That fact cannot be changed, whatever the technology or demand, no matter how much wishful thinking there is.
i very much disagree the only daft thing is Bismuth is a waste material from lead mining. But then the world thinks its ok for Children if Africa to mine the toxic materials that Electric car fuel cells are made from so i guess its only classed as toxic with populations who can bring legal action
its Certainly not Rare as they Chuck sacks of it into the galvanising tanks to sink the dross
 

Bowland blades

Well-Known Member
Really ? Is there a good reason not one of those orgs opted to ask its memberships opinion on the matter before signed US up to it ?

How do we gain ?
Tell me one positive about this, we will be losing ammo choice , certain guns will be obsolete, we will lose participating shooters..... Ah ! Now I see a positive, firearms licencing might be a bit quicker to provide the service theyre meant too, once weve lost large numbers of licence holders !
Result.:lol:
the orgs did not fight the lead ban because it cannot be won! America are however managing some control over it because the spin was more game
what our orgs where going for was a five year transition and there is still a reasonable chance for that happening . The alternative was immediate legislation - with the obvious results of most forms of shooting stopping almost overnight
Remember even the Military are changing
 

Rewulf

Well-Known Member
Remember even the Military are changing
No they're not.
the orgs did not fight the lead ban because it cannot be won!
It can't be won if your orgs volunteer to ban it before anyone even mentions it 😂
America are however managing some control over it because the spin was more game
Americans won't stand for it, so it will only happen if individuals want to use none lead.
If they tried a blanket ban like here, it would get very messy fast.
 

Bowland blades

Well-Known Member
No they're not.

It can't be won if your orgs volunteer to ban it before anyone even mentions it 😂

Americans won't stand for it, so it will only happen if individuals want to use none lead.
If they tried a blanket ban like here, it would get very messy fast.
we aint going to agree . Radwell green have already stopped making any more lead fyi
part and parcel of the 6.5 mm being introduced , they might not have stopped shooting it but not making it is a bit of a giveaway
Amecian shooters have been behind the non toxic thing many more years than us , its just they have better control over it
 

Rory

Well-Known Member
we aint going to agree . Radwell green have already stopped making any more lead fyi
part and parcel of the 6.5 mm being introduced
, they might not have stopped shooting it but not making it is a bit of a giveaway
Amecian shooters have been behind the non toxic thing many more years than us , its just they have better control over it
You are dangerously misinformed.
 
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