I`ve shot the one i wanted to keep, thanks to Mr C.

It's always a learning curve whatever we do Basil, I do not profess to be an expert by any means mate, as it happens the job was done the deer thankfully did not suffer..

When I was younger and didn't have the same attitude or experince I do now, I headshot deer with a open sighted .303 on the farm off a landy bonnet, it makes me cringe to think about my youthful antics now so you are not alone mate.
People in the UK have this thing against head and neck shots so it's touchy business, I do not have any opinion either way as long as the deer is dispatched cleanly and if it couldn't be I just would not take the shot simple as that.
If you go to other countries they look at you a bit odd when you say you go for a body shot.
A guy I was with in New Zealand told me he had only ever done neck or occasionally head shots, as it spoils the meat, I come across this with American mates also.
It is simply down to personal choice Basil, use good practices, and enjoy the sport, and I am sure that you would be very wise to take up Swampy on his offer of mentoring he is a good bloke.
 
Firstly, to all those folk on the directory that i have offended and feel that i have brought the world of Deer stalking into disrepute, i sincerely apologise.
I am big enough and ugly enough to take the flak that is being laid at me and i will stand and be counted. Although, i realise now that what i did was wrong, lessons have been learned and believe me they`ve been learned the hard way and at present they hurt. Certainly, i should have worded parts of the posts very differently to the way i did.
I have been in contact with the admin team this afternoon to clear up a couple of things, i explained that when i made "that post", and the first reactions came back i tried to delete it, i also PM`d a fellow member for advise on deletion but i didn`t and still haven`t received a reply. I then contacted the admin team but as we have discussed, the damage was done.
I have offered my deletion from the directory to the admin team, who have kindly refused my offer at this time.
I would like to say a big thank you to those members who have PM`d me over this matter with messages of support. It means alot to me.
I can only end this by promising that i`ll take a few steps backwards, learn from my mistakes AND i sincerely hope that i haven`t lost any friends from the Stalking Directory.
I am open to discussion over "that post" so if anyone would like to PM me, please feel free.
Thank you.
basil.
 
basil
i was going to reply at 6:30am but work made it difficult as i was running late but this was my reply
as i read this post my heart sank, as i read how you took this buck with the shot you made and also the fact you made a rush decision as to reason why the shot came about
i understood why you wanted to go and impress mrC as this was a good oppurtunity to gain extra land but you hav a mentor and feel you should of waited for him to go with you , as i help a lot of new stalkers and would feel let down if i was not needed when the first offer of help from another who you did not know came along , i feel you may hav let your mentor down by not talking to him first,
as for the buck you went against your own judgement in the culling of this paticular beast, as it was one you wanted to leave, as when you would of had a chance to take such a fine beast again, i hav no idea but next year i feel it would of been the time
i head shoot quite alot and on one occassion lost a roebuck and never found it again as it cleared several fields while i tried to get a recovery shot in which i missed, the feeling i went through changed the way i took head shots in the future
choosing to shoot it in the jaw was bad judgement which i am sure you will learn from,
as for asking this thread to be removed , i am glad admin refused , as this may help to educate others in what may not be right to do in the same instances
as for asking to be deleted from the directory well that is your choice and one i hope you will not take, as this site is purely for stalkers and stalking people , yes we all make mistakes , some worse than others we can only learn from them, with help from those more experienced than ourselves can only improve our knowledge and experience
but what we all need to look at is the fact basil has a mentor and that is for a reason, as you can see like many others they are needed in some situations
if for any reason your mentor feels he can be of no more service to you then take up swampy's offer , i know he will teach you right, or if you are prepared to travel to wawrickshire then i will take the time and trouble to help and try guide you in the right direction
before you all look and think i am on some sort of band wagon, just think about what happened to russ91 and what i said about his post in the articles section on his boar trip to scotland , i feel the same about basil's post but feel like russ he also needs a little guidance which i think i can offer in this instance ,like the rest of you, we all had to start somewhere , mistakes and all

stone
 
Basil don`t worry about the replies.
Personally, I think constructive advice would be better replies, not just jump in with the critiscim and holier than though replies.
We all make mistakes,the man that hasn`t made a mistake hasn`t made anything.,
As for hunting,the man that hasn`t missed hasn`t shot much.
 
Basil
I have let my Buck fever subside. !A poor shot , no head is worth the trouble.
Trapper.
 
I was probably the second person to read Basil's original post and I simply didn't know how to respond. Like other folk I was aghast at what was described - should I fire off a PM, public post a list of all the negatives? Each option had a range of pros & cons, so I decided to sleep on it. Been at a dreary conference all day and mulling it over. Opened the forum with some trepidation this evening - and you know what? I feel really relieved.

Yes, there was some quick fire gut response - and that was going to be my first reaction. There was also consideration for Basil and his level of experience and concern about his continued presence on the forum. There was a great deal of of honesty about the dumb things done or mistakes we have all made. Basil's recognition of a bad event and learning from it......

Personally I am really encouraged by what has come out of this. Folk may have a range of opinions and views on all manner of things to do with stalking, but clearly we do care about how we manage deer, we are prepared to speak up and we are prepared to learn. Good skills all round.

I will stop before I start hugging too many trees. I am 'ghosting' an early morning stalk arranged with Varmint 243, so I have to pack my bag with cable ties, baler twine, G clamp and mole grips, just in case he plugs one and we need to tie off the food pipe!
 
Hi Basil,
Swampy and Stone , top guys in my book ;) .
I won't name the guy, but a well liked guy here had an awful experience this year, when he shot a buck too far back. It was never found. The chap still feels terrible about it.
Another missed an easy shot while out with me, which could have gone horribly wrong had he not missed clean. Wisely they never posted anything about it.

I posted the tale of my first stalk, (I shot through one deer into a second which was hidden from view), got ripped to pieces funnily enough. :cry:

Like most sites we have our share of witch hunters. They never miss, never wound, and allways get their deer. Professional boot menders to a man.

Might I make so bold and suggest any innexperienced stalkers or posters, run their posts by one of the old boys via a P.M.? Thay way only one guy will chew your balls. :eek:

Better than being torn apart by the boot menders. :confused: ?

Kind regards to all the positive critics,
Mark
 
basil said:
Firstly, to all those folk on the directory that i have offended and feel that i have brought the world of Deer stalking into disrepute, i sincerely apologise.
I am big enough and ugly enough to take the flak that is being laid at me and i will stand and be counted. Although, i realise now that what i did was wrong, lessons have been learned and believe me they`ve been learned the hard way and at present they hurt. Certainly, i should have worded parts of the posts very differently to the way i did.
I have been in contact with the admin team this afternoon to clear up a couple of things, i explained that when i made "that post", and the first reactions came back i tried to delete it, i also PM`d a fellow member for advise on deletion but i didn`t and still haven`t received a reply. I then contacted the admin team but as we have discussed, the damage was done.
I have offered my deletion from the directory to the admin team, who have kindly refused my offer at this time.
I would like to say a big thank you to those members who have PM`d me over this matter with messages of support. It means alot to me.
I can only end this by promising that i`ll take a few steps backwards, learn from my mistakes AND i sincerely hope that i haven`t lost any friends from the Stalking Directory.
I am open to discussion over "that post" so if anyone would like to PM me, please feel free.
Thank you.
basil.
basil your going to make more friends than foes from your post ,ie your a honest man . like i sed it did not read well for you , but we have all ****ed up and bigger than that .i hope now you know now its more that a big buck or bragging rights .the animal is all that is important .not the shot or how big .i think on this forum we have some skilled people that have held fire on you as we have been there at one point or another .if your ever in ireland pm me and il bring you for a sika hind or two regards irish
 
Thank you for the positive replies. I have decided to stay on the forum for now as in the long run, it`s me who will lose out.
Please forgive me if i go quiet for a while, i need to take some time to reflect on this unfortunate situation.
I also have to speak with my superviser again and we`ll see where we go from here.
basil.
 
I went to a gun shop yesterday to buy some rounds. The owner is highly regarded as a stalker of 30 or so years experience. This is the first time I have been there so we had never met. In conversation his views were that the internet will give the antis all the ammunition they need to offer arguments for advocating a ban on shooting.
Pictures of dead animals just shot and the morbid details of the shot were the main reasons in his opinion
I have to say I can see his point of view very clearly.
The internet is an excellent resource of information and help on offer from experienced people, but... and it is a big but... do we need to post this?
Any deer stalker or shooter knows what is involved.
And anyone can read this.
 
Basil
I'm sorry if I offended you by my post but I stand by what I said.
I am very glad you are still posting and hope you will continue to do so.
If you ever wanted a stalk towards your experience you would be more than welcome to come out with me.

Wayne
 
Well done to you all!!!! Now take your heads out of where the sun dont shine and think!!!! Now alot out there dont condone head shots, thats there porogative not what Basils biggest mistake is was to share his happiness with what he thought were fellow stalkers! Did he think he was going to get strips torn of him? NO! But hey ho guess what you were lying in wait as always. As said constructive replies would have been good and probably helped to put your thoughts over. I take head shots if the beast is looking straight/standing at me I will try and turn it but if not itll get a high neck shot under the chin just like what Basil was doing. Anybody seen the Fallow/ Sika stalking dvd where jan Andrew slips a shot under the chin??????? Or is she an idiot as well?????? Well is she?????? Or is she not 1 of the most respected Stalkers in Britain??? Let me explain to those wanabe Stalkers and I use that world loosely! The neck shot that Basil took, that I will use and also Jan andrews did is the safest neck shot to be taken! Its either a clean miss or a perfect shot! The upper most part of the neck is the least mobile part of a deers neck, If the deers looks to the side that part of the neck doesnt move. It also is the thinnest profile of the neck hence clean miss or clean kill!!! This is not a bloody head shot!! Im ending this reply as Im getting worked up thinking as per usual we are pressing the self distruct button from inside when we should be pulling together. This is the reason I dont post much on "stalking" sites now a days and why Im contemplating giving stalking up, since I started stalking Ive never had the displeasure of meeting so many idiots. Give a man a rod and he is equal give a man a gun and its messes his ego.

Basi PM sent keep up the good work.


nutty
 
There is no such shot that is either a clean kill or a clean miss. :confused: :confused: :confused:

I have seen the larynx shot out of a deer and it took a hell of a lot of tracking to find. I have also had to shoot deer with damaged/ broken jaws that are just bags of hair and bone. I suppose these were clean misses???

Mark
 
300wsm said:
The top of the neck is the most mobile part of the neck and even a small error in poi can create a horrible not immediately fatal wound that if not immediately followed up and deat with can leave the deer in agony for weeks suffering a long agonising death. The jaw is never a humane aiming point regardless of experience, calibre, bullet, or size of trophy to suggest otherwise Nutty is at best blinkered.

As to seeing a professional take a high neck shot I am sure Jan wasn’t aiming for the lower jaw or advocating anyone else doing so, Jan probably shoots more deer in a week than many do in a year.

I watched TV last night and saw a guy free climbing sky scrapers it dosent mean to have to go into London today and try to free climb canary warf

As I said in an earlier post

'A Man has got to know his limitations'

and

'Jan will know her limitations'

Basil did not know the consequences of what he was doing but that did not make it right, as he has said very well in his own words.

To post that the high neck shot a clean kill or clean miss shot, with no adverse deer welfare if your shot is even slightly of target, is at best misleading and at worst downright irresponsible especially as many newcomers look on here for advise and guidance.

All fair comments but.

Blinkered how?

Yes the bottom jaw is not a aiming point agreed I should have said an inch or 2 below. I take it you wouldnt sign a level 2 stalk of as the stakler took a successful neck shot.

Limitations yes we all should know them!!

How is climbing sky scrapers any thing to do with shooting? I didnt say do what I do did I?

As for the mobility of a neck that was what I was told, and to expand slightly when I say clean miss, there is LESS chance of a serious wound. But lets be sensible about this a bad placed shot is a bad placed shot.

But the rerason for my post was not to advocate neck shots, but to say my peace regards the nature of the replies!!!!! Fine people saying sorry but the damage was done you lot need to think very closely!!
 
Why not get a helicopter the DCS seems to think they are the dogs nuts. :lol: and have wiped out more deer in a season than a stalker could take in his life time, :(
Now i wasn't going to post on this as every thing has been said with regards the basil chap.
But nutty who ever told you that under the chin was the least mobile place on a kneck must be a beginner. Now i now you haven't been stalking long and are only sticking up for the underdog (basil ) in this case but please think logically before you post. With regards Jan Andrews If she did put a shot under the chin i dont really agree with that and would tell her to here back as she is bigger than me . :eek: but ill bet it wasnt out at nearly 200 mtrs.
 
This thread had the potential to go badly wrong and get all personal.
Well done Basil for the discussion-provoking post.
Well done also to Swampy, Duncs and Wayne (and others) for their thoughtful replies.
Personally, and it is just a personal view, I wouldn't take a high neck at 165m, well for now. I'm not up to it, my rifle and ammo probably are, but I'm the weak link and all that's before what the deer/wind will do. I have taken neck shots, not many, but before each one I was well placed, the wind was good and the beast stood absolutley still.
I actually got a bit of stalking because I turned down a difficult shot, you don't always have to be Buffalo Bill to impress the owner, thank goodness.
My worst shot was from a high seat at a roe doe during a cull, only just about 100m away, still air and almost perfect broadside stance. But I pulled the shot, hit her too far back and she walked towards me with a bad wound. Fortunately she stopped after only a short distance and I finished her with a second, this time perfectly placed shot.
However I will never forget the awful feeling of utter digust with myself at not taking my time with the first shot and as a result wounding a beast - it nearly made me give up shooting. I am lucky not to have had a runner, maybe I'm lucky, but I will do all I can to avoid that gut-wrenching situation.

Anyway, thanks for the debate.
G
 
Gentlemen I was one of those that Pm'ed Basil to explain why we were not removing his post, as the damage had been done.

HOWEVER and this is the HOWEVER.

Basil you are a sound person in my book. It takes a MAN to stand up and admit he was wrong. AND ALL OF US on here have been wrong at sometime. If you have been stalking long enough you will have F/////d up at sometime or another, any Stalker who tells me he hasnt is a liar I'm afraid, or he/she has not been stalking very long.

I am very pleased with your replie's to the posting, and it now remains to leave this post, and not turn it into why, how, where, and I would know better :rolleyes:

For all of you that have never made a mistake , keep stalking because no matter how good you think you are, it will happen. I freely admit it happened to me in the past , and you learn from it and move on. Lets give Basil our support and advice, which is what all semi and professional stalkers on this site should be doing.

Keep posting Basil, I look forward to hearing about a more constructive stalk next time ;)

Enough said I think now Gentlemen.
 
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