Identifying dog/vixen with Thermal

jb1

Well-Known Member
If I get called out on a problem fox then I will have a night out. But generally I will give them a rest this time of the year, do a decent job prior to the mating season and you shouldn't see that many. Its about keeping to a manageable level, not see if you can eradicate them off the face of the earth.
 

deerly departed

Well-Known Member
It always amazed me that the antis were apoplectic about hounds and huntsmen killing foxes during the winter but didn't utter a squeak about the shooting of vixens all year round and consequently cubs being left to starve with the suffering and misery that must entail. Out of sight out of mind, perhaps. As has already been said unless there is a genuine problem to be dealt with backing off on the culling for a couple of months, regardless of sex, is surely the only humane approach to take.
Thats a luxury for a sporting shooter not a pest controller. If you were on my land and I wanted my animals protected then if you told me that you would be off.
If its arable well maybe but pest control is a job not a hobby. If you are diligent you would get to know the den and the members of the family. As already stated.... a fox has absolutley no compulsion to leave a milky doe rabbit alone and go for a buck 100 yards away. No matter how you dress it...nature is very fundamentally very ugly. Same if the fox was on the menu for a higher predator... they wont loose any sleep taking a vixen with cubs.
It really boils down to what younas a shooter wants to do and whatnthe permission holder has told you to do. If the land is your then do what you feel happy with but the fox wont give a rats behind.
 

jb1

Well-Known Member
The thing is we should be educated enough to make the decision as to whether we need to control the vermin because it will affect "our" well-being or business, or we go out and shoot "just another fox"
I carry out pest control on a medium size shoot, on average i will shoot in the region of 100 Fox's a year on that estate and a smaller 500 acre farm probably around 1/2 that.
There are no Poults out until August September time, so no concern there from Fox's taking them, incidentally more poults are taken by B.O.P either Buzzards or Owls or Corvids than Fox.

Each and every one of us knows what we are to do in the situation that we are faced with, they will all be different, as are we, all different.
 

finnbear270

Well-Known Member
One of my farmers has been informed by his veterinary, the blame for the neospora (spelling?) infections his cattle get, are due to foxes crapping in & around the feed rails ... so we are tasked year round with removal of fox.
 
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Paddy_SP

Well-Known Member
One of my farmers has been informed by his veterinary, the blame for the neospora (spelling?) infections his cattle get, are due to foxes crapping in & around the feed rails ... so we are tasked year round with removal of fox.
That is absolutely correct (including the spelling!).

As for stopping shooting when there are cubs around - I've said this several times before, and doubtless I'll have to say it several times again... I'm reliably informed by the terrier people who used to work with the hounds that they regularly dug cubs around Xmas. The year before last we saw two cubs in a lane in mid-September while we were driving home one night. Then, a fortnight later, we saw another one a couple of miles from there - it was so small it could only have been away from it's mother for a few days. So - if you're not going to shoot foxes from December until September, I suggest you take up something else to while away the hours as the farmers (certainly those around here) would boot you straight off their land.
 

sauer

Well-Known Member
What about foxes predating songbird & wader nests this time of year ?

Anyone do fox control purely with this in mind as well as lambs and poults being a consideration
?

Paul
 

plonker

Well-Known Member
Was out last night looking for a problem fox that I suspected was coming from ground I had no permission to shoot on.As suspected I watched it coming over the top of a hill from another piece of ground and luckily make it's way over towards me where it was dispatched.
After hittingt his ground hard I was hoping to leave it alone for a while but unfortunately the call came and I had a job to do.
 

Norfolk ferret

Well-Known Member
What about foxes predating songbird & wader nests this time of year ?

Anyone do fox control purely with this in mind as well as lambs and poults being a consideration
?

Paul
The fox control I do for my day job is purely to protect nesting waders, it’s hard work as the foxes on the marshes are always a lot more crafty than the ones I take care of on the arable land for my game shoot.
 

toads

Active Member
Hi, I shot 2 approximately 10mins apart on fri evening. First heading 100yds from a known fox earth area,carrying something so squeaked it about 80 yds away. Second one, still early in evening, below me on hill,eating something about 70yds. The time came,and I went to collect them. 1st dog with half young rabbit,2nd milky vixen and she was eating a wood pigeon! She was bigger than him, and I've dealt with cubs over last two nights
 
Thats a luxury for a sporting shooter not a pest controller. If you were on my land and I wanted my animals protected then if you told me that you would be off.
If its arable well maybe but pest control is a job not a hobby. If you are diligent you would get to know the den and the members of the family. As already stated.... a fox has absolutley no compulsion to leave a milky doe rabbit alone and go for a buck 100 yards away. No matter how you dress it...nature is very fundamentally very ugly. Same if the fox was on the menu for a higher predator... they wont loose any sleep taking a vixen with cubs.
It really boils down to what younas a shooter wants to do and whatnthe permission holder has told you to do. If the land is your then do what you feel happy with but the fox wont give a rats behind.
Couldn't agree more with the first part of your reply. As I said, unless there is a genuine reason to shoot during the breeding season. However, I don't believe that any animal has the mental capacity or the need to be aware of the suffering which is a consequence of it's actions. If they are to survive they cannot afford that luxury. We, on the other hand, do and, in my opinion, we should exercise that ability to reduce suffering where we can.
 

deerly departed

Well-Known Member
Couldn't agree more with the first part of your reply. As I said, unless there is a genuine reason to shoot during the breeding season. However, I don't believe that any animal has the mental capacity or the need to be aware of the suffering which is a consequence of it's actions. If they are to survive they cannot afford that luxury. We, on the other hand, do and, in my opinion, we should exercise that ability to reduce suffering where we can.
Your second point is fair enough. We do have that ability. Your problem is that a land owner might agree with you..... or they may not. In some ways.... if you are pest control... it isnt your decision.
If you remove the problem and hit the dogs and vixens before they breed then all the better. If you dont take out cubs and the parents then thats more work later and the livestock potentially suffers which rather defeats the objective.
The offspring of one species is often timed to coincide with the likely supply of prey offspring so one way or another... something ends up dead.

To refrain is either your decision as the land owner or your decision as a shooter which .... presumably you keep to yourself and do not tell the person who has asked you to come onto their land to deal with an issue.

As i said if the land owner says leave them be then thats fine. Stupid but fine. If it is the decision of the shooter because their moral compass has a big swing north then that isnt.
As a matter of interest... do you own your land or are you shooting for a land/livestock owner.
Ultimately one needs to ask what the owner wants and you then have a perfectly good choice to either comply.... put forward a reasoned argument as to why you should abstain or step aside.
The reason I disagree with your philosophy is that one of my permissions is a range where rabbit followed by foxes dig out the butts.... sometimes with very significant damage.
My last foxing session there took out 2 adults and 5 cubs. If we had let them be it would have taken months to get those animals and would have cost the owner a fortune if we were charging a fee.
Some species are on the Gen Licence for a reason and some species are soooo prolific that even if every shooter in the UK went out regularly and focused on that 1 species we would have little overall effect. Squirrells (grey) and foxes are two prime examples.
My best count for one night of foxing was 11.... but for those eleven... we saw at least double that in eyes we couldnt engage either because of distance or no safe backdrop.
I want to be as efficient as possible so to be able to hit the problem before they breed is better but impossible to stop. To hit the cubs is the next best and it is what my brief invaraliably boils down to. As I said a predator has no such compulsion so in a way...those that live by the sword......
 

Tremo

Well-Known Member
If I told my landowners that I was intentionally leaving foxes alive this time of year I would get quite an earful for sure! They wouldn't hesitate getting some else on the land to sort them out.

Have you ever met a sheep farmer who has mixed feelings regarding foxes during the lambing period? Not me.
 

jb1

Well-Known Member
One things for sure,
Its a good job we don't all shoot on the same piece of land. We manage our own pieces of land the way we feel fit.
 

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