Illuminated or not Z6

fcp

Well-Known Member
I've got a 3-12x50IL PA PM2, p3 reticule on my stalking rifle at the moment which I like a lot.

I had hoped to acquire another PM2 in the same format to replace the scope I have on my AR (mainly used for civillian service rifle and a few charlies) is a Nikon M223 which I bought from the USA last year and just haven't got on with (you get what you pay for etc etc).

Haven't been able to find a used PM2 with the right reticule for sensible money and it got me thinking that perhaps I should switch the scope of my deer rifle for something else and put the PM2 on the AR.

Z6 2.5-15x56 looks good bet. FOV, twilight factor and exit diameter are all good. Glass on the PM2 is great, this will be at least as good with the advantage of a 56mm OBj.

I probably wont bother with ballistic turrets as eal my shooting is <150 yards.

The question in my mind is whether the illuminated version is worthwhile. My PM2 is illuminated. I couldn't honestly event tell you whether the battery is any good though - I never use it. That should answer the question for me I guess. On the other hand, from a resale point of view I wonder whether it illuminated reticules are considered important (will I ever sell it? who knows, just worth throwing into the mix I think).

Reticule will be a 4A-I or 4A-300-I (I like the clearer site picture on the latter I think)

Anyone bought an 'I' and regretted it? how about the other way around?
 

Eric the Red

Well-Known Member
I've got a 3-12x50IL PA PM2, p3 reticule on my stalking rifle at the moment which I like a lot.

I had hoped to acquire another PM2 in the same format to replace the scope I have on my AR (mainly used for civillian service rifle and a few charlies) is a Nikon M223 which I bought from the USA last year and just haven't got on with (you get what you pay for etc etc).

Haven't been able to find a used PM2 with the right reticule for sensible money and it got me thinking that perhaps I should switch the scope of my deer rifle for something else and put the PM2 on the AR.

Z6 2.5-15x56 looks good bet. FOV, twilight factor and exit diameter are all good. Glass on the PM2 is great, this will be at least as good with the advantage of a 56mm OBj.

I probably wont bother with ballistic turrets as eal my shooting is <150 yards.

The question in my mind is whether the illuminated version is worthwhile. My PM2 is illuminated. I couldn't honestly event tell you whether the battery is any good though - I never use it. That should answer the question for me I guess. On the other hand, from a resale point of view I wonder whether it illuminated reticules are considered important (will I ever sell it? who knows, just worth throwing into the mix I think).

Reticule will be a 4A-I or 4A-300-I (I like the clearer site picture on the latter I think)

Anyone bought an 'I' and regretted it? how about the other way around?

I have both, in the format you specify and one with BT, one without. I have regularly used the Z6 for foxing and it is rare, though not unheard of that I do lose the reticle in the sight picture. I like the 'i', but I find the binnacle clumsy. The firedot and the reticle are extremely fine indeed. I like having the firedot at last light, but if you can't see the reticle I do wonder whether there's enough light to shoot anyway. Depends on your budget. 3-12x50 PMII are less than a Z6 though, so your call. I don't think you'll regret buying one in either format - the glass is better than the Schmidt.
 

fcp

Well-Known Member
I have both, in the format you specify and one with BT, one without. I have regularly used the Z6 for foxing and it is rare, though not unheard of that I do lose the reticle in the sight picture. I like the 'i', but I find the binnacle clumsy. The firedot and the reticle are extremely fine indeed. I like having the firedot at last light, but if you can't see the reticle I do wonder whether there's enough light to shoot anyway. Depends on your budget. 3-12x50 PMII are less than a Z6 though, so your call. I don't think you'll regret buying one in either format - the glass is better than the Schmidt.

What about build quality? The PM2 is very substantial. Am I right that the Z6 is an aluminium body? I don't throw my kit around, but equally I have no doubts at all in that regard for the schmidt
 

nick100

Well-Known Member
I have just been through this, IMHO the Illum was worth the extra.
The cross hairs are a lot finer than I was used to, one of the reasons for changing.
I am yet to take mine lamping but I feel the cross hairs are so fine I will soon loose them.
Also I find the dot draws my eye onto the target in daylight.

Very nice glass, but I am not 100% convinced it is holding zero.
A bit more 'testing' to be done yet, just work and weather getting in the way.
 

Eric the Red

Well-Known Member
@ Nick

Nick, you're not a million miles away - if you want to compare like for like, let me know and we'll sort something out.


@fcp

I have no complaints on build quality. My rifles and scopes are tools of the trade, so while they are looked after, they are not cossetted. They hold up as well as anything else I have used and that includes PMII's.
 

The Singing Stalker

Well-Known Member
Funny enough I have started asking question re scopes cos I am thinking of spending some money. I have a Meopta on my hunting rifle with ir. I up graded it from a Meopta without ir because I was out on a stalk and I lost the reticle before I lost the picture. If I had had the ir and the deer had come out I would have been able to take the shot. They didn't as it happened but heyho.
and now I am looking for a good scope for my 223 and I would like ir just because if I use a lamp I think it will help that little bit. I do mainly NV stuff but it is nice to,cover all possibilities and if it gets me that one shot then it is worth it.
and just to go off topic slightly I am interested in the top turret elevation click thing so you can distance and turn the elevation to the correct level. Forget what they call it.
​anyway interested to see what other answers come along.
 

Odin

Active Member
I have just been through this, IMHO the Illum was worth the extra.
The cross hairs are a lot finer than I was used to, one of the reasons for changing.
I am yet to take mine lamping but I feel the cross hairs are so fine I will soon loose them.
Also I find the dot draws my eye onto the target in daylight.

Very nice glass, but I am not 100% convinced it is holding zero.
A bit more 'testing' to be done yet, just work and weather getting in the way.

Definitely get the illuminated version. Not much more expensive but as the wires are so fine it's v good at moderateo low light.

My sight was returned to Swaroski as it was throwing rounds all over the place. Now fixed but the design flaw is seengly resolved in the mk2.
 

fcp

Well-Known Member

My sight was returned to Swaroski as it was throwing rounds all over the place. Now fixed but the design flaw is seengly resolved in the mk2.

That doesn't fill me with confidence to be honest - its not the first mention of reliability I've now read about either. I'm leaning back towards another PM2 I think.
 

BunnyDoom

Well-Known Member
That doesn't fill me with confidence to be honest - its not the first mention of reliability I've now read about either. I'm leaning back towards another PM2 I think.

Same - I hear Swarovski customer service is second to none... I never hear amout S&B customer service because i've never heard of one going wrong!
 

2130martin

Well-Known Member
I had a PM2 and never used the ILL RET,chopped it in for the Z6i you are quoting and always use the ILL RET,day and night!!.....they have a very fine RET which needs clarity in my opinion....and the Ill Ret is bound to hold more money for future deals as it will be more sought after.....
 

al4x1

Well-Known Member
What about build quality? The PM2 is very substantial. Am I right that the Z6 is an aluminium body? I don't throw my kit around, but equally I have no doubts at all in that regard for the schmidt

I've had no issues build quality wise without being overly precious with mine, the upside is they are pretty light on a stalking rifle. I did have a Z6 with the 4a ret and had to sell it as I couldn't get on with the fine lines at last light and under the lamp. Bought a Z6i with the same ret and the difference is massive no issues and more to the point no missed foxes on the lamp at ranges I shouldn't be missing!
 

Virbius

Well-Known Member
I bought the Z6i gen2 in 2,5-15x56 with BT and rail mounting for my .243. I'm yet to be really convinced of the illumination, but so far have not had any issues with it not holding zero, although it did take a year to sort out the issues with the Swarovski lens covers due to a known design issue with them! I do feel as though it is a bit delicate compared to my S&B 3-12x42 which feels bullet proof. I wanted a higher magnificaiton as I also used the .243 for targets, almost wished I'd bought the S&B 4-16x50 PMII :(
 

Eric the Red

Well-Known Member
Funny enough I have started asking question re scopes cos I am thinking of spending some money. I have a Meopta on my hunting rifle with ir. I up graded it from a Meopta without ir because I was out on a stalk and I lost the reticle before I lost the picture. If I had had the ir and the deer had come out I would have been able to take the shot. They didn't as it happened but heyho.
and now I am looking for a good scope for my 223 and I would like ir just because if I use a lamp I think it will help that little bit. I do mainly NV stuff but it is nice to,cover all possibilities and if it gets me that one shot then it is worth it.
and just to go off topic slightly I am interested in the top turret elevation click thing so you can distance and turn the elevation to the correct level. Forget what they call it.
​anyway interested to see what other answers come along.


That's the Ballistic Turrets (BT) Dec.

Nice idea, well executed and the software is good/accurate too. I do think it's one more thing to fiddle with, rather than 'it's a distance, so I'll go top shoulder' - plus you can't see them at night.....given the choice I'd spend the money on the 'i' over the BT.
 

hillmouse

Well-Known Member
I had never been one for gizmo's and gadgets but I found the illuminated reticule I tried on scopes in the Zeiss range was a revelation. The adjustable intensity dot is perfect for ensuring correct placement at the limits of light and indeed at other times too. It certainly has advantages in my opinion.
 

nick100

Well-Known Member
@ Nick

Nick, you're not a million miles away - if you want to compare like for like, let me know and we'll sort something out.

Thanks for the offer, you never know.

I have got hold of a FAT wrench and torqued rings and bases up etc, so just need a bit more time just to check it.
It's only if I have had it in the truck etc it seems to shift POI.
It holds a group no problem.

​Other than that very impressed with the scope.
 

flipflop

Well-Known Member
I have a z6 2-12x50 with a 4a-300 that I got for a good price from Gregor in Tain. I would like to have stretched o an illuminated reticle, but just wouldn't stretch. That having been said, I don't think I've ever been on a stalk where I've missed for want of an illuminated reticle.
 

fcp

Well-Known Member
I think I've more or less settled on another PM2. I can't find a used one with a P3, but I think I'm going to settle for a P4L. I toyed with spending less and buying a Zenith 2.5-10 but my guess is that the immindent arrival of the 2.5-13 Stratos is going to make that redundant (not available yet) and though I'm sure the Z6i would have been a marginally better low light scope, I have reservations about the fine reticule and durability of it in comparison to the PM2 (not to say the Z6 isn't durable or well made, but the PM2 is a known quantity in that respect)
 

75

Well-Known Member
Yes on illuminated reticule and no on BT!! IR gives you an extra 10-15 mins of shooting at dusk, deaf worthwhile in my experience. Never used my BT in 2 years of lowland stalked so wouldn't pay extra for that...
 

blunderbust

Well-Known Member
Z6i gen 2 in 2.5 x 15 x 56 with BT is a fantastic scope. I use one on my 300 win mag and love it, indeed I am away to put one on my .243. The fine ret does take a bit of getting used to but with the illum dot it is great.
 
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