info/help on Lee loader

[gixer1]

I was in my local gun shop and spotted this lee loader lurking on the shelf, I said how much and he said "make me an offer" so I got it for what i feel was a snip....

I don't really bother with reloading as I have a good supply and variety of ammo locally but a lot of my friends in the states swear by these lee hand loaders and they put A LOT of rounds down range so i figured i'd give it a try, what are the opinions on these little hand loaders? is the accuracy improvement noticable over modern factory rounds? I never heard any complaints on these...

It looks so simple to use and when you see them knocking out a round in a minute it's worth a try!

Looking at the dipper though its got "205" on it instead of the usual x.x scale and I can't find anything that tally's with the other scale so does anyone know what this equates to as there is no mention of Varget on there....

Also, what year would this be with the packaging??



thanks in advance

Gixer

 

[MarinePMI]

Wow! That is an old set. I'd e-mail Lee and see if they would post you a new measure (or give you the volume) as well as send you new loading data for current powders. Of course, if they told you the volume, you could just use a Lee manual (since it lists their loads for their scoops). A set of powder scoops are fairly inexpensive...

That load data is pretty old (circa 1974 by the copy right date), I'd focus on getting some current data.

Looking at my set of Lee powder measure scoops, and the associated card, it would appear your scoop falls between 3.10cc and 3.40cc, unless the powders have gotten denser (consistently, you scoop and load data show .6-.7grs lower than the 3.40cc scoop).

 

[mereside]

Gixer i have one in 270 and its a great little tool all you need is a rubber mallet a good solid platform to work from scales and your off the benifit to these is if you are working on loads set your bullets to the longest length and hit the range with your loader and mallet and you can adjust at the range.
you will need to use once fired brass from your rifle and trim and clean also
the dipper i found in my 270 needed a little extra of a scoop so i just lob one dipper into the scales and trickle the rest to get the correct weight.
if vargets not listed just keep dipping and weighing your load or buy the right dipper if it doesnt match correctly.as always start with a known load and work up atb wayne

 

[gixer1]

Gixer i have one in 270 and its a great little tool all you need is a rubber mallet a good solid platform to work from scales and your off the benifit to these is if you are working on loads set your bullets to the longest length and hit the range with your loader and mallet and you can adjust at the range.
you will need to use once fired brass from your rifle and trim and clean also
the dipper i found in my 270 needed a little extra of a scoop so i just lob one dipper into the scales and trickle the rest to get the correct weight.
if vargets not listed just keep dipping and weighing your load or buy the right dipper if it doesnt match correctly.as always start with a known load and work up atb wayne

Thanks for the info so far, I may be mistaken but i'm sure my friend across the pond was loading 30/06 and just using the dipper but i cannot remember what powder he was using, also should I just use a factory round for setting the OAL?

Regards,

Gixer

 

[saddler]

Thanks for the info so far, I may be mistaken but i'm sure my friend across the pond was loading 30/06 and just using the dipper but i cannot remember what powder he was using, also should I just use a factory round for setting the OAL?

Regards,

Gixer

My first loader was one of these too - purely used the dipper as per the instructions and never had any problems with it. Still have it 30+ years later, thought the gun I used it for was banned a while back!!

Setting the seating depth with a factory round would be a good idea, it's what I do as a starting point

 

[mereside]

some powders will work using the dipper and some won't you can buy the full set of dippers so you can do it just using those but for my piece of mind would like to weigh.
you could set to factory size to work on powder load then i would do some that fits the magazine and slowly work down from that if it fits into the correct spec for your round. that way you will know what works, just keep going down till you see the sweet spot and then it will open out again so you know exactly where you need to be. others might have better ideas,atb wayne

 

[gixer1]

Excellent feedback guys, hope i hear from more people on this as it seems pretty simple and effective...the video pn the net of the founder doing it doesn't even show him cleaning the brass!

Regards,

Gixer

 

[bewsher500]

great things
Its Muir's fault by I now have a fettish for them!!

the old red dippers were not graduated by CC.
you can get a whole set of dippers for £12 which allows you to use say a 4.0cc and a 0.5cc to get a required weight
if you figure out what scoops you need I have a load of them spare, just let me know

I worked out a full spread of CC to grains for various powders I use here: (powders have different densities so 4.0cc of N160 is not the same charge by weight as 4.0cc of N165!)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...9xdHo1WFhPMzE4YUZvZHFPOHc&usp=drive_web#gid=6

my go tp .270 just happens to coincide with 4.0cc of N160!!
which also coincides with a clear "one scoop load"!

 

[gixer1]

great things
Its Muir's fault by I now have a fettish for them!!

the old red dippers were not graduated by CC.
you can get a whole set of dippers for £12 which allows you to use say a 4.0cc and a 0.5cc to get a required weight
if you figure out what scoops you need I have a load of them spare, just let me know

I worked out a full spread of CC to grains for various powders I use here: (powders have different densities so 4.0cc of N160 is not the same charge by weight as 4.0cc of N165!)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...9xdHo1WFhPMzE4YUZvZHFPOHc&usp=drive_web#gid=6

my go tp .270 just happens to coincide with 4.0cc of N160!!
which also coincides with a clear "one scoop load"!

Ok, the old red dippers are apparently cubic inches so you take the number (205 in this case) and put a point infront of it so it's .205 cubic inches - by my reckoning this would be multiplied by 16.378 to give me cubic centimeters as per the new dippers???

And if the above is correct then on the chart for modern dippers it doesnt have a 3.275 cubic centimeter dipper so I take the one that is there (a 3.1) and then divide the grains with the powder i'm using ( i will say Varget in this case) so the figure is 42.4 grains divided by 3.1 = 13.67 then multiply this by 3.275 and this gives me 44.76 grains per dip??

Is this correct?

Regards,

Gixer

 

[howy308]

Just get some scales!

 

[bewsher500]

Just get some scales!

I use dippers to throw the charge into the scales if and when I do use them!
99% of the time there is no trickling to be done

[caveat] - dipping action should be practiced and tested to guarantee consistency.
1) gravity fill the scoop by pushing down and allowing the powder to spill over the top of the vertical scoop (use consistent pwoder depth in small vessel to keep consistent fills
2) clean top off with straight edge
3) don't spill any!

 

[gixer1]

Just get some scales!

That's not really that helpful....at the end of the day if it's simple maths the dipper may be fine....

 

[stag1933]

That's not really that helpful....at the end of the day if it's simple maths the dipper may be fine....

At the end of the day you may need a new eyeball.
A scale, a trickler and simple maths will be safer.

HWH.

 

[gixer1]

At the end of the day you may need a new eyeball. A scale, a trickler and simple maths will be safer. HWH.

sorry, I don't understand your comment.

i will check the dipped charge with scales and if all is ok then try it...

i sat sat at a range in the states and I'm pretty sure just about all ad them had a hand loader and was using a dipper - I did see one person with an old cut down case and a piece of wire as a handle on it!

regards,
Gixer

 

[bewsher500]

At the end of the day you may need a new eyeball.
A scale, a trickler and simple maths will be safer.

HWH.

balls!
more ammo loaded by volume than anything else...factory and home

i have a sheet with volume to weight for all powders
will dig it out

 

[bewsher500]

From the Lee chart these are the charge weights per CC for Varget
it gives a grain per CC of 13.68 (give or take! its actually 13.6786786786786 rec)
(Add all the volumes and all the weights, divide the total weight by the volume)

I updated the spreadsheet on the link on page 1 for varget
but the dippers in the dipper kit in CC work out to be:
(how many loaders do you know who measure to 2 decimal places in grains!!??)

CC	Grains

[TD="align: right"]2.50[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]34.20[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]2.60[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]35.56[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]2.70[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]36.93[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]2.80[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]38.30[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]2.90[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]39.67[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]3.00[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]41.04[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]3.10[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]42.40[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]3.20[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]43.77[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]3.30[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]45.14[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]3.40[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]46.51[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]3.50[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]47.88[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]3.60[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]49.24[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]3.70[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]50.61[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]3.80[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]51.98[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]3.90[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]53.35[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]4.00[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]54.71[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]4.10[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]56.08[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]4.20[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]57.45[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]4.30[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]58.82[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]4.40[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]60.19[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]4.50[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]61.55[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]4.60[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]62.92[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]4.70[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]64.29[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]4.80[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]65.66[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]4.90[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]67.03[/TD]

you can mix and match to get a specific charge if you have a few or what also works is a disc of card stuck in the base of a scoop






next question....
Is Varget not a bit fast for a 30-06?

 

[Sharpie]

Ok, the old red dippers are apparently cubic inches so you take the number (205 in this case) and put a point infront of it so it's .205 cubic inches - by my reckoning this would be multiplied by 16.378 to give me cubic centimeters as per the new dippers???

Nope, the conversion factor is 16.387. So you are 0.055% out

1 inch = 2.54 cm. Cube it.

And if the above is correct then on the chart for modern dippers it doesnt have a 3.275 cubic centimeter dipper so I take the one that is there (a 3.1) and then divide the grains with the powder i'm using ( i will say Varget in this case) so the figure is 42.4 grains divided by 3.1 = 13.67 then multiply this by 3.275 and this gives me 44.76 grains per dip??

Is this correct?

Nope, you reckon your dipper is 3.275cc. I reckon its 3.36cc. Even with your slightly incorrect conversion you should have worked it out to be 3.358cc.

I suggest you buy a new calculator, or learn to push the buttons in the correct sequence

For future reference, Lee publish what they call "VMD factor", i.e. cc/grain, for many powders. Its in their manual, or if you buy a set of scoops you get a cardboard slide rule, or download the latest version from http://leeprecision.com/cgi-data/instruct/VMD.pdf

The VMD for Varget is 0.07310 cc/grain, which is the same as the 13.67 grains/cc you calculated. You got that much correct.

So by my reckoning, your 0.205 cubic inch scoop should drop 0.205 x 16.387 x 1/0.07310 = 45.96 grains of Varget.

Which is 1.2 grains higher than you calculated.

 

[Sharpie]

From the Lee chart these are the charge weights per CC for Varget
it gives a grain per CC of 13.68 (give or take! its actually 13.6786786786786 rec)
(Add all the volumes and all the weights, divide the total weight by the volume)

Or just look it up in their VMD chart


http://leeprecision.com/cgi-data/instruct/VMD.pdf

PS: your calculation is in error, its 1/0.07310, i.e. 13.679890560875512995896032831737 etc.

​

 

[bewsher500]

Or just look it up in their VMD chart


http://leeprecision.com/cgi-data/instruct/VMD.pdf

PS: your calculation is in error, its 1/0.07310, i.e. 13.679890560875512995896032831737 etc.

​

my calculation is taken off their chart.
If they choose to round up the VMD that is up to them......
but then again you show me a scale available to reloaders that can accurately measure 0.001 of a grain and I will take that on the chin

 

[Sharpie]

PS: the single scoops that Lee supply with their loaders and die sets are usually well judged. For rifle calibres they are usually chosen to give about 90% case capacity, which is usually a conservative starting point with a suitable powder. Even if you weigh every charge, the scoops are ideal for filling the pan, then trickling up to max.