Infrared and Camouflage do deer see it like this?

John Norris

Well-Known Member
Take a look at these two photos same trousers one photo in daylight and the other with some daylight but taken with my game cam with infrared light, is this how deer see them??
124992124993
 

Freeforester

Well-Known Member
Simple - ask one! Note how the 'lighter' looking trousers seem to blend in better (or at least don't stand out o much) when viewed against the ground vegetation; in daylight, when they look darker, they blend in with the colour of the ground litter, but not so much the plants.
 

Klenchblaize

Well-Known Member
I would suggest a change in the washing agent used to clean your hunting clobber, and mindful the quantum yield of a photoluminescent substance provides a direct measure of the efficiency of the conversion of absorbed photons into emitted photons. Such unhelpful additions to your weekly wash will currently be found in no less than five commercial fluorescers under the same conditions: peri- dinaphthalene (perylene), 5,6,11,12-tetraphenyltetracene (rubrene), 9,10-diphenylanthracene, 9,10- bis(phenylethynyl)-anthracene, 1-chloro-9,10-bis(phenylethynyl)-anthracene, in comparison with synthesized bis(2,4,5-trichloro-6-carbobutoxyphenyl) oxalate.

That said of more significance to the hunter is the quantum yields and the maximum wavelengths of these fluorescers notwithstanding they are very important for practical applications, where scotopic visual sensitivity intervenes.

Or put another way stop using conventional (off the shelf) washing agents to take care of your grubby and deer-stinky hunting outfits!

K
 

mike308

Well-Known Member
I, well my wife, only ever washes my stalking clothes in pure soap flakes because of all the brighteners put in ordinary detergents.
 

FISH BOY

Well-Known Member
I just stand in the rain :lol:

Sorry, not helpful :rolleyes: but I do paint the white bits on my pigeon decoys with UV paint due to reading years ago that they identify that spectrum.
 

NigelM

Well-Known Member
Deer have a lot more rods and a lot fewer cones in their eyes. The higher density of rods explains why they can see better in low light conditions than us. Rods are not colour sensitive but are much more light sensitive than cones.

We have 3 types of cone, ones that can see purple/blue, a second type that sees greens and yellows and a third that can see oranges and reds. We can't see ultra violet at the purple end of the spectrum or infra red at the red end.

Deer only have 2 types of cone, one can see ultra violet through to blue and the other for the greens. Yellow through red are seen as a mushy shade of green which is why hunters can get away with wearing orange vests. Deer don't have a UV filter on the lens like us which makes these wavelengths even more sensitive.

Cones also pick up definition. The detail a deer can see at 20 yds is the same as we can see at 100 yds. The sensitivity of the rods however does pick up movement very quickly. That's why if you stand very still against a tree or suchlike a deer can stare straight through you but if you move a muscle your pinged very quickly. It is highly unlikely that they can see the intricate patterns on something like realtree camo. Breaking up the human form is better achieved with larger areas of block colour which disguise the form.

Your particular issue is that colour brighteners in biological powders work in the UV range which we can't see apart from a very slightly brighter/blue white. To a deer which can see UV you effectively glow in the dark!

I have managed to lay my fingers on 3 papers written by researchers studying whitetail deer in the US. A couple of the studies focus on dissection of the eyes and counting rods/cones etc. and applying what we know about our eyes to it. One takes the theory of the first two and runs a series of behavioural tests on 7 whitetail in captivity to test the theory. They are a fascinating read and taught me a lot about what to worry about and what not to when it comes to fieldcraft and camouflage.
 

jubnut

Well-Known Member
Well bugger me I've managed to shoot a lot of deer with glow in the dark clothes in that case.

All my stalking clothes always have and always will be washed in Fairy along with the rest of my day to day clothes. It doesn't make a ***** worth of difference.
 

John_R

Well-Known Member
I would suggest a change in the washing agent used to clean your hunting clobber, and mindful the quantum yield of a photoluminescent substance provides a direct measure of the efficiency of the conversion of absorbed photons into emitted photons. Such unhelpful additions to your weekly wash will currently be found in no less than five commercial fluorescers under the same conditions: peri- dinaphthalene (perylene), 5,6,11,12-tetraphenyltetracene (rubrene), 9,10-diphenylanthracene, 9,10- bis(phenylethynyl)-anthracene, 1-chloro-9,10-bis(phenylethynyl)-anthracene, in comparison with synthesized bis(2,4,5-trichloro-6-carbobutoxyphenyl) oxalate.

That said of more significance to the hunter is the quantum yields and the maximum wavelengths of these fluorescers notwithstanding they are very important for practical applications, where scotopic visual sensitivity intervenes.

Or put another way stop using conventional (off the shelf) washing agents to take care of your grubby and deer-stinky hunting outfits!

K
Relevant in UV not in IR, but I do agree it is better not to use regular washing products, and wash as rarely as possible.
 

Hayduke

Well-Known Member
Great thread and one I have long wondered about. A number of times I have been absolutely stock still, nailed my field craft (or so I thought). But. Once up a high seat, a few times on tracks with back drop and obscured by vegetation - deer wandered by, stopped, stared straight at me and legged it. My face has been obscured, skin not showing, wind right.

I figured out either the roe know their territory like the backs of their hoofs and sussed something - me - was out of place, or as mentioned above optical brighteners in the laundry powder - except that I have stopped using detergents and just run my gear through the washing machine without powder on 40degrees.
 

Cootmeurer

Well-Known Member
Deer have a lot more rods and a lot fewer cones in their eyes. The higher density of rods explains why they can see better in low light conditions than us. Rods are not colour sensitive but are much more light sensitive than cones.

We have 3 types of cone, ones that can see purple/blue, a second type that sees greens and yellows and a third that can see oranges and reds. We can't see ultra violet at the purple end of the spectrum or infra red at the red end.

Deer only have 2 types of cone, one can see ultra violet through to blue and the other for the greens. Yellow through red are seen as a mushy shade of green which is why hunters can get away with wearing orange vests. Deer don't have a UV filter on the lens like us which makes these wavelengths even more sensitive.

Cones also pick up definition. The detail a deer can see at 20 yds is the same as we can see at 100 yds. The sensitivity of the rods however does pick up movement very quickly. That's why if you stand very still against a tree or suchlike a deer can stare straight through you but if you move a muscle your pinged very quickly. It is highly unlikely that they can see the intricate patterns on something like realtree camo. Breaking up the human form is better achieved with larger areas of block colour which disguise the form.

Your particular issue is that colour brighteners in biological powders work in the UV range which we can't see apart from a very slightly brighter/blue white. To a deer which can see UV you effectively glow in the dark!

I have managed to lay my fingers on 3 papers written by researchers studying whitetail deer in the US. A couple of the studies focus on dissection of the eyes and counting rods/cones etc. and applying what we know about our eyes to it. One takes the theory of the first two and runs a series of behavioural tests on 7 whitetail in captivity to test the theory. They are a fascinating read and taught me a lot about what to worry about and what not to when it comes to fieldcraft and camouflage.
Very well stated. One addition is that deer (and other creatures who have reflective eyes) have a tapetum at the back of the eye that essentially lets them receive/sample the light twice making low light conditions much less so. We, for the most part, only get to use the light once.
 

Harry mac

Well-Known Member
I would suggest a change in the washing agent used to clean your hunting clobber, and mindful the quantum yield of a photoluminescent substance provides a direct measure of the efficiency of the conversion of absorbed photons into emitted photons. Such unhelpful additions to your weekly wash will currently be found in no less than five commercial fluorescers under the same conditions: peri- dinaphthalene (perylene), 5,6,11,12-tetraphenyltetracene (rubrene), 9,10-diphenylanthracene, 9,10- bis(phenylethynyl)-anthracene, 1-chloro-9,10-bis(phenylethynyl)-anthracene, in comparison with synthesized bis(2,4,5-trichloro-6-carbobutoxyphenyl) oxalate.

That said of more significance to the hunter is the quantum yields and the maximum wavelengths of these fluorescers notwithstanding they are very important for practical applications, where scotopic visual sensitivity intervenes.
K
That's easy for you to say!
 

finnbear270

Well-Known Member
I would suggest a change in the washing agent used to clean your hunting clobber, and mindful the quantum yield of a photoluminescent substance provides a direct measure of the efficiency of the conversion of absorbed photons into emitted photons. Such unhelpful additions to your weekly wash will currently be found in no less than five commercial fluorescers under the same conditions: peri- dinaphthalene (perylene), 5,6,11,12-tetraphenyltetracene (rubrene), 9,10-diphenylanthracene, 9,10- bis(phenylethynyl)-anthracene, 1-chloro-9,10-bis(phenylethynyl)-anthracene, in comparison with synthesized bis(2,4,5-trichloro-6-carbobutoxyphenyl) oxalate.

That said of more significance to the hunter is the quantum yields and the maximum wavelengths of these fluorescers notwithstanding they are very important for practical applications, where scotopic visual sensitivity intervenes.

Or put another way stop using conventional (off the shelf) washing agents to take care of your grubby and deer-stinky hunting outfits!

K
Someone help me up?, just a whole library of encyclo’s fall on me.
 

NoIDeer

Well-Known Member
Get a cheap UV torch off eBay, great for checking the missus is cleaning properly, spotting blood in the dark/twilight and seeing which of your hunting clothes have OBA's (optical brightening agents).
 

Robek1980

Well-Known Member
Unfortunately almost all washing powders are embedded with a chemical whitening agent called trans-stilbene. This compounds job is to fool our eyes especially with white clothes and emit a pale blue glow that we associate with nice bright white colour. It is activated by UV light ... however on a nice evening when the moon is up the reflected light from it will also activate this. it is almost invisible for our eyes but your camera with high IR sensitivity and some animals will pick it up :( Hope it helps
 

Top