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Sold: John Dickson 16-bore side-by-side

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Virbius

Well-Known Member
Hi, I'm selling my John Disckson 16-bore. This shotgun is identified in the Dickson and MacNaughton ledger as manufactured on 7th July 1909, and is a "Fine Double A & D hammerless Ejector 16 bore gun with 28" Steel Barrels a 14 & 5/8ths Stock and weighs 5 & 1/2lbs.

I have had the bores measure which are slightly over-size indicating thinning wall thicknesses. I had a local gunsmith look at the Dickson, and confirmed that it has been proofed since 1984. He confirmed that the bores were in tolerance, but there were a couple of places on the barrels that were undersize thickness at 17 thou.

I paid way over the odds for it 4 years ago, a lovely gun, but totally the wrong fit for me and so sadly she has to go. Included is about 7 boxes of cartridges.

£1,395.00. Any questions please ask.

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Virbius

Well-Known Member
Some more information from having the barrels measured by my local gunsmith:

Based on the proof marks andmeasurements, he said that it is in proof and there is 6 thou on the rightbarrel (difference between .677 and .671) and 5 thou on the left barrel (.681and .676) before it goes out of proof. He then commented that I should haveno problem selling it based on the proofing and that shooting with it wouldn’twear the barrels out to take it out of proof. I’ve also included an imageof the proofing as I can’t remember whether I included it on the Guntraderadvert.

It's got to go as it is totally wrong fit for me, and difficult to value so I really am open to offers.

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Virbius

Well-Known Member
It's becoming very clear that I overpaid significantly for this shotgun from a disreputable dealer, but surely it is worth something to someone based on the comments of a very respectable gunsmith in my post above?

I really am open to offers, so if it is something that you would like in your cabinet for rough shooting, walked up grouse then please make me an offer, I won't be offended.

Happy to meet half-way within reason to do a face-to-face transfer.
 

Virbius

Well-Known Member
The sorry story of my John Dickson......

I have had the gun inspected by an expert in all things Dickson at the request of a American customer who was very interested in buying as he is a collector. The gun is in proof, however in the RFDs opinion the current barrel thickness is too thin to shoot safely. He states that it is still lawful to sell, but needs sleeving to make it a useable and safe gun. Imagine my shock and surprise having bought it in good faith and only having put about 2 boxes of cartridges through it. With good barrels, he valued it at circa £3500. He says he hears of this type of story maybe once a year.

I believe that it would be morally and ethically wrong for me to sell with that knowledge. He believes that sleeving would cost around £2000 and would potentially make the gun worth £3000. Other than the barrel issue, he has stated that it is a beautiful gun. It depends on how keen you are to own this – you could get the gunsmith to re-sleeve it, make me an offer for the gun as it is now and have him deliver to you. He has made me an offer to take the gun, but I thought I would communicate to any interested parties before I agree to sell to him.

I will only divulge the RFD via requests on PM who I am happy for you to speak to directly to discuss if you wish.

This beautiful old gun deserves to be nursed back to health.

 
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PKL

Well-Known Member
There are many bad sleeping jobs out there and a good one is easy £2.5k plus vat. It's worth it if it's to keep personally for the long term, but for resale a sleeved job will struggle to fetch £800. I was in dicksons on Frederik st. The other day and a client came in with a recently sleeved Dickson round action, beautiful and case hardened etc, a real stunner. They valued it at £700 which the client couldn't believe as he just paid £3k for restoration and sleeving!

i reckon the gunsmith you saw is making you a low offer, if you take it, he will resell the gun for a couple grand on Holts as is with no work done,,bet you.

you're best auctioning it in the Holts Dec auction yourself and let them evaluate and advertise it as they see fit, burden of risk and moral compass of the sale is on them. I guess you will have the best return there and buyers can ask the gun room staff for a condition report prior to bidding.

just my 2 cents worth
 

deerstalker.308

Well-Known Member
Would have to agree with PKL on this, I have an English sidelock ejector which is sleeved, I think I'd struggle to get £800 for it if I tried, I took it into my local gunshop and they refused point blank to take it in part ex as they felt they'd never be able to sell it. Not sure what's going on with the world but clearly the beauty of older guns is not what people are after currently. Good luck with the sale.
 

Virbius

Well-Known Member
After a long drawn out process which has seen the gun and barrels travel up and down the country to various gunsmiths to argue over the barrel thickness, the dealer I bought it from finally agreed to take it back with a refund due to the barrels being, and I quote 'whoever refurbished the barrels has done a mind numbingly and unbelievably bad job' and 'it's a beautiful gun but the barrels are scrap'. It was ticketed as 'mint' when I bought it.

So a word of warning to anyone who is tempted to buy an old gun, irrespective of whether it has passed proof, have the barrel thickness measured and check the gun thoroughly. Particularly if the gun has been refurbished. Caveat Emptor!!!!
 

Adiepie

Well-Known Member
What a shame. Thanks for the story, at least you managed to get your money back.

As you said, "Caveat Emptor"

Adrian
 

Dalua

Well-Known Member
So a word of warning to anyone who is tempted to buy an old gun, irrespective of whether it has passed proof, have the barrel thickness measured and check the gun thoroughly. Particularly if the gun has been refurbished. Caveat Emptor!!!!
These are wise words. The second-hand market, particularly in English guns, seems to have more than its fair share of sharp practitioners.
 
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