Just feeling a wee bit depressed about humanity this morning...

[Bo Diddley]

Look what you've started....

 

[dunwater]

So you support that a woman raped by her brother is forced to carry the baby to term because every conception is a gift?

That is what happens today in Florida.

The 6week limit has caused women to die from back street abortions. Doctors are scared to get involved because there is a 24hr delay from first consultation to treatment which is enforced by the state.

Incest and rape occur. 1:3 women in this country suffer domestic abuse. Not all conceptions are the woman’s fault yet they carry all the risk.

Misogyny lives here and in America sadly.

Rare and extreme cases used to justify abortion on demand as emergency contraception.
I personally don’t agree with that, neither do I agree that the foetus is unviable prior to some arbitrary date, it’s perfectly viable all the way from the moment of conception to the moment of birth once you leave it in the environment designed to nurture it.
Your view is very different to mine, but this is not an easy topic for compromise.

 

[Deerhunter22]

The only postive thing about this is that nutjob can not ever be re elected into power again as tht will be his two terms. Not tht he would have tried again anyways

 

[nun_hunter]

Just to be clear, I am not in any ways an extremist on this issue. I fully recognise the circumstances you describe regarding domestic abuse and coercion, and bringing a child into such an environment would simply be piling tragedy upon tragedy.

Where I may differ is that I see society now viewing abortion as simply another type of contraception, when in reality there are far more effective means available for addressing the issue of unwanted pregnancies.

Having known a few women who have had miscarriages and abortions it's not a case of nipping to the hospital and 5 minutes later you're skipping out without a care in the world. It is an intrusive surgery that is painful, distressing and takes some time to recover from.

I think the view that society in general now view it as a form of contraception isn't accurate but is reported due to rare and extreme cases.

The women having multiple abortions have multiple other mental health and often drug abuse issues so this is just another problem for them rather than a well adjusted member of society choosing abortions as their preferred method of contraception.

Maybe if men took more responsibility for contraception then it wouldn't be such an issue. How many different contraception methods are there for men compared to women?

Clearly men see avoiding getting pregnant as a women's problem, but when women want to do something about it men seem to want to get involved and tell them what they can or can't do.

 

[big ears]

I have had to deal with men who have been close to tying a noose as they don’t want to admit to being abused or mistreated by their female partners - we can all recount these types of instances, it doesn’t make your argument stronger than others.

I agree and ALL forms of domestic abuse is to be deplored. The reality is that more men abuse women than women abuse men. Neither is right but likewise neither is more deserving of attention.
Crying “it happens to men as well” really doesn’t address the problem and in fact makes it worse as it sounds like when men are abused it’s more important than when women are.

The narrative should be that ALL domestic abuse should be called out regardless of who it is aimed at.

The shocking fact is that on this site there are likely to be domestic abusers who keep it under the radar.

 

[big ears]

Rare and extreme cases used to justify abortion on demand as emergency contraception.
I personally don’t agree with that, neither do I agree that the foetus is unviable prior to some arbitrary date, it’s perfectly viable all the way from the moment of conception to the moment of birth once you leave it in the environment designed to nurture it.
Your view is very different to mine, but this is not an easy topic for compromise.

Agree and I realise we are stepping into religious beliefs.
Each to their own opinion. I am against termination as a way of contraception there are many better.
I am also aware that often women get pregnant when it is not consensual and can be part of a wider picture of abuse.
To that end I believe there should be some latitude.

 

[willie_gunn]

Having known a few women who have had miscarriages and abortions it's not a case of nipping to the hospital and 5 minutes later you're skipping out without a care in the world. It is an intrusive surgery that is painful, distressing and takes some time to recover from.

I think the view that society in general now view it as a form of contraception isn't accurate but is reported due to rare and extreme cases.

The women having multiple abortions have multiple other mental health and often drug abuse issues so this is just another problem for them rather than a well adjusted member of society choosing abortions as their preferred method of contraception.

Maybe if men took more responsibility for contraception then it wouldn't be such an issue. How many different contraception methods are there for men compared to women?

Clearly men see avoiding getting pregnant as a women's problem, but when women want to do something about it men seem to want to get involved and tell them what they can or can't do.

I know what abortion surgery involves, and was not looking to diminish the effect it has on all those concerned. However 61% of all abortions in 2022 were completed using mifepristone and misoprostol, where two pills are taken at home. On top of this are those abortions where either both pills are taken at a clinic, or where the first is taken at a clinic and the second at home. Again, this does not imply that it is inconsequential in terms of the effect that it can have on both physical and mental health.

You are absolutely spot-on in terms of the responsibility for both contraception and pregnancy being something that should be equally shared by men and women.

 

[gixer1]

I agree and ALL forms of domestic abuse is to be deplored. The reality is that more men abuse women than women abuse men. Neither is right but likewise neither is more deserving of attention.
Crying “it happens to men as well” really doesn’t address the problem and in fact makes it worse as it sounds like when men are abused it’s more important than when women are.

The narrative should be that ALL domestic abuse should be called out regardless of who it is aimed at.

The shocking fact is that on this site there are likely to be domestic abusers who keep it under the radar.

What’s your point politically?? Nobody disagrees that abuse is bad - however, making bad decisions and facing the consequences is not “abuse”….

Some cases are labelled as abuse when they simply are not.

It’s similar to calling career criminals “heroes”….and is what, in my opinion is going wrong in society.

 

[nun_hunter]

I agree and ALL forms of domestic abuse is to be deplored. The reality is that more men abuse women than women abuse men. Neither is right but likewise neither is more deserving of attention.
Crying “it happens to men as well” really doesn’t address the problem and in fact makes it worse as it sounds like when men are abused it’s more important than when women are.

The narrative should be that ALL domestic abuse should be called out regardless of who it is aimed at.

The shocking fact is that on this site there are likely to be domestic abusers who keep it under the radar.

The simple fact is that male or female you are far more likely to be abused, assaulted or killed by a man. It doesn't make you woke or preferring soy latte's to acknowledge this, but it shows a lot more about your character if your first response is to defend it and state you're not the problem and it's just a few others and bring up that a tiny percentage of men suffer at the hands of women.

 

[Apthorpe]

So you support that a woman raped by her brother is forced to carry the baby to term because every conception is a gift?

That is what happens today in Florida.

Is it? Who was raped by their brother and forced to carry the baby to term today?

Over 200,000 humans are killed by abortion each year in this country, and there is no way you can keep a straight face and say that even half of those cases were the result of incest, sexual crime, or genuine serious threat to the mother's physical or mental health.

As you perfectly well know, this is an extremely dishonest argument in favour of abortion. Legalising abortion is not about providing for victims of sexual violence, it is overwhelmingly about opening a door to allowing women to kill humans in massive numbers essentially for their own expedience. This has become so entrenched that only a few weeks ago, I read someone boasting about having twice had abortions which were obviously illegal, and yet it was viewed as being wholly acceptable.

The 6week limit has caused women to die from back street abortions.

And the current UK law has resulted in millions of unnecessary deaths - which incidentally, has contributed to a serious demographic deficit, the consequences of which have polarised society and destroyed the fabric of the nation.

Doctors are scared to get involved because there is a 24hr delay from first consultation to treatment which is enforced by the state.

Incest and rape occur. 1:3 women in this country suffer domestic abuse. Not all conceptions are the woman’s fault yet they carry all the risk.

Here you are conflating things in a dishonest way again. Incest and rape do occur, but they have no connection whatsoever to the alleged claim that a quarter of women (you may mean a third, but are too innumerate to express it correctly) in this country suffer domestic abuse.

Misogyny lives here and in America sadly.

And sadly rampant dishonesty continues to be welded to "progressive" politics here and in America.

 

[gixer1]

The simple fact is that male or female you are far more likely to be abused, assaulted or killed by a man. It doesn't make you woke or preferring soy latte's to acknowledge this, but it shows a lot more about your character if your first response is to defend it and state you're not the problem and it's just a few others and bring up that a tiny percentage of men suffer at the hands of women.

Are men as likely to report abuse? (No)

Lack of visibility of an issue does not mean it does not exist. There is a stigma whereby some will suggest men cannot be abused by women and if they are they must be weak.

Neither should happen.

 

[tackb]

I agree and ALL forms of domestic abuse is to be deplored. The reality is that more men abuse women than women abuse men. Neither is right but likewise neither is more deserving of attention.
Crying “it happens to men as well” really doesn’t address the problem and in fact makes it worse as it sounds like when men are abused it’s more important than when women are.

The narrative should be that ALL domestic abuse should be called out regardless of who it is aimed at.

The shocking fact is that on this site there are likely to be domestic abusers who keep it under the radar.

at the risk of derailing this thread , i believe women are every bit as abusive as men and the only reason men appear to be the main abusers is men simply don't report it

i was abused by my partner , i am 6'4'' and 20 stone she was 5' , the only time i ever said anything the response was the expected disbelief and how can she look at the size of you !

worrying who will believe you when your partner is threatening you with scissors in a fit of rage is not a nice place to be

thankfully all in the past now

 

[Eddie P]

I've just spoken to a friend in Texas, he works with loads of Mexicans who are happy with the outcome, his wife is of Mexican decent, is pro-choice and a feminist, she hated Harris and wouldn't vote for her. That's the problem with the democrat campaign, the nominated an unelectable.

 

[Tazz]

The only postive thing about this is that nutjob can not ever be re elected into power again as tht will be his two terms. Not tht he would have tried again anyways

That was the same in Russia until Putin got in and changed the law regarding how many terms you could run. Trump will get in with both a majority in the Senate and the House of Representatives mmmmmm

 

[gixer1]

at the risk of derailing this thread , i believe women are every bit as abusive as men and the only reason men appear to be the main abusers is men simply don't report it

i was abused by my partner , i am 6'4'' and 20 stone she was 5' , the only time i ever said anything the response was the expected disbelief and how can she look at the size of you !

worrying who will believe you when your partner is threatening you with scissors in a fit of rage is not a nice place to be

thankfully all in the past now

I only mention this as you have mentioned your experience, I recently watched the breakdown of a relationship - the male is a 6’ 1” tall guy who is in the building trade.

He has had numerous cuts, bruises and injuries in the last few years.

The female was a shorter female.

The male himself would not acknowledge it as abuse, I had a conversation with him where I said “listen mate, you have cuts and bruises, you have lied about falling off machinery to cover up an injury, you are leaving the house to get away from the chance of volatility….thats abuse…”

Very hard to watch and even harder when the person makes statements like “I’m just done”…..

It’s going off topic, I know but I do wonder how many instances are missed from statistics due to the lack of reporting by males.

 

[Apthorpe]

Having known a few women who have had miscarriages and abortions it's not a case of nipping to the hospital and 5 minutes later you're skipping out without a care in the world. It is an intrusive surgery that is painful, distressing and takes some time to recover from.

Are we to presume that nobody else knows people who have had miscarriages and abortions? This is classic Guardian/Radio 4 rhetoric, "as a....." my opinion has precedence over yours.

I think the view that society in general now view it as a form of contraception isn't accurate but is reported due to rare and extreme cases.

How do you know it's rare?

The women having multiple abortions have multiple other mental health and often drug abuse issues so this is just another problem for them rather than a well adjusted member of society choosing abortions as their preferred method of contraception.

How do you know? Given that this appears to be about 40% of abortions, it seems improbable to put it mildly.

Maybe if men took more responsibility for contraception then it wouldn't be such an issue. How many different contraception methods are there for men compared to women?

Fewer.

Clearly men see avoiding getting pregnant as a women's problem, but when women want to do something about it men seem to want to get involved and tell them what they can or can't do.

Based on what evidence?

 

[Apthorpe]

The simple fact is that male or female you are far more likely to be abused, assaulted or killed by a man. It doesn't make you woke or preferring soy latte's to acknowledge this, but it shows a lot more about your character if your first response is to defend it and state you're not the problem and it's just a few others and bring up that a tiny percentage of men suffer at the hands of women.

You're talking about people being physically abused or assaulted. The implication being that psychological harm and abuse is either non-existent or insignificant. If one is to have a sensible or balanced discussion of domestic abuse, then you have to admit the seriousness and the validity of the various forms abuse cant take, don't you?

 

[tackb]

You're talking about people being physically abused or assaulted. The implication being that psychological harm and abuse is either non-existent or insignificant. If one is to have a sensible or balanced discussion of domestic abuse, then you have to admit the seriousness and the validity of the various forms abuse cant take, don't you?

men commit suicide nearly 4 times more than women..

 

[Apthorpe]

men commit suicide nearly 4 times more than women..

I hadn't considered this aspect before. One can't know exactly how many of those deaths follow domestic abuse. However, given that something of the order of 5,000 men per year die by suicide, it is at least highly probable that more of them have been victims of domestic violence than the number of women victims of domestic homicide.

 

[Freeforester]

Most married men generally die before women because they want to...