Labour and the train drivers

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mudman

Well-Known Member
Well they have caved in, given them what they wanted. Back dated. No agreement to improve working methods and efficiency. Just doled out our cash.

First the medics now the train drivers, they will all be lining up now knowing Labour will just give the unions what they want.
 
Crowstalker said:
Labour and unions are so intertwined they might as well be the same thing.
Click to expand...
I think that formally the situation is (maybe was) that the Labour and CoOperative party only existed as the political wing/arm/representatives of the Trade Union Movement. They are intertwined at many levels from selection for safe seats to the ruling committees. So we should not be surprised by any of this.

This issue / crunch will come when they can no longer afford to back down and having made striking easier the whole s**t show blows up in their faces and we are back to the 70’s. Enter the next Maggie T.
 
Nimrod1960 said:
I think that formally the situation is (maybe was) that the Labour and CoOperative party only existed as the political wing/arm/representatives of the Trade Union Movement. They are intertwined at many levels from selection for safe seats to the ruling committees. So we should not be surprised by any of this.

This issue / crunch will come when they can no longer afford to back down and having made striking easier the whole s**t show blows up in their faces and we are back to the 70’s. Enter the next Maggie T.
Click to expand...
Non of them have the bollicks to give the orders from back then in this day and age.

 
Something had to budge after 2 years of stalemate under the Tories.
The economy can't move forward without a decent railway system.
Now to move on to renationalisation as soon as Parliament gets back.;)


The latest deal marks an improvement from the previous offer in April last year that was rejected by Aslef members. The earlier offer would have given drivers an 8% pay rise over two years but also included a number of changes to working conditions. The deal agreed in principle with the Department for Transport (DfT) will result in a pay rise of 5% for 2022-23, 4.75% for 2023-24 and 4.5% for 2024-25 – all backdated and pensionable.

Under the previous Conservative government, pay talks stalled between drivers, the DfT and the Rail Delivery Group (RDG), the body that represents train operators, after the April 2023 offer was rejected. Aslef said in May it had not had a meeting with the then rail minister, Huw Merriman, since January 2023.

This time the employers RDG were excluded from the negotiations. The 16 train operating companies won't be needed any more soon, what a shame.

 
Nimrod1960 said:
I think that formally the situation is (maybe was) that the Labour and CoOperative party only existed as the political wing/arm/representatives of the Trade Union Movement. They are intertwined at many levels from selection for safe seats to the ruling committees. So we should not be surprised by any of this.

This issue / crunch will come when they can no longer afford to back down and having made striking easier the whole s**t show blows up in their faces and we are back to the 70’s. Enter the next Maggie T.
Click to expand...

Yep, the tail, wagging the dog again.
 
Sinistral said:
The economy can't move forward without a decent railway system.
Click to expand...
whilst there are a number of reasons to invest in transport infrastructure, economic growth is not one of them.
Of 2,300 evidence based reviews of transport infrastructure links to growth from OECD countries only 29 looked at rail and met minimum good practice research standards. Of those 2 showed a net positive impact on growth, 1 showed a mixed impact and 3 found no effect at all.
 
I was serving in the mid/late 70’s. Remembering getting a pay rise every month as the very kind Labour Government had dropped us into such a debt burden that the IMF refused to lend the UK any more until they agreed a more sustainable fiscal policy
 
mudman said:
Well they have caved in, given them what they wanted. Back dated. No agreement to improve working methods and efficiency. Just doled out our cash.

First the medics now the train drivers, they will all be lining up now knowing Labour will just give the unions what they want.
Click to expand...

Absolute scum both of them.
 
Why do all train drivers look the same? Seriously, I did a weekend break in London a year or two back annd having a drink in a central London pub and a load of rail / underground employees (I think drivers) came in for after works drinks. They were all 50+, stocky, slightly overweight, shorter stature, short hair. Mirror images of their union reps. It just struck me as really strange.
 
Basil H said:
As I understand it, during the strikes Shapps was compensating the rail companies with public money. The pay rises, if agreed, will be paid for by those companies.
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Wouldn't surprise me... I seem to recall one of the points of argument regarding the NHS strikes (at least the junior doctors?) was that the government was forking out more for locum cover to cover the strikes than they would have if they'd just pay them what they were asking (let alone whatever they eventually settled on...)
 
Sinistral said:
Something had to budge after 2 years of stalemate under the Tories.
The economy can't move forward without a decent railway system.
Click to expand...

For the full year ending March 2023 the railways in the UK required ÂŁ12bn in subsidies, equivalent to ÂŁ420 per household.

I wonder how much a "decent railway system" would cost??

Good to see this Government carrying on the Labour Party tradition of awarding huge pay rises without the taxpayer getting anything in return with regards productivity, modern work practices, etc. Just like the 1970's!
 
Basil H said:
As I understand it, during the strikes Shapps was compensating the rail companies with public money. The pay rises, if agreed, will be paid for by those companies.
Click to expand...
The HMT Review lists this as ÂŁ2.9bn (ÂŁ1.6bn for rail passenger services, ÂŁ1.3bn for rail maintenance). Part of this year's ÂŁ35.3bn overspend Labour has inherited. Incidentally, also twice the ÂŁ1.4bn saving made by means-testing Winter Fuel Payments this December. Both figures are in the Treasury review.

Reeves told MPs the £2.9bn unaccounted extra cost came about MPs, because Conservative ministers “handed out cash to rail companies” to make up for lower passenger numbers and lower revenues, but didn't properly budget for it.
 
Mossy said:
Can’t give the nurses a pay rise but train drivers an extra 9k🤦‍♂️
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No idea where this came from, but it's wrong. The pay awards are the same if you look. :oops:
willie_gunn said:
For the full year ending March 2023 the railways in the UK required ÂŁ12bn in subsidies, equivalent to ÂŁ420 per household.

I wonder how much a "decent railway system" would cost??

Good to see this Government carrying on the Labour Party tradition of awarding huge pay rises without the taxpayer getting anything in return with regards productivity, modern work practices, etc. Just like the 1970's!
Click to expand...
After collating all the recent announcements there's quite a list, Willie. I do like playing with bullet points. Can't quite see the point of having pay review bodies you ignore. Apart from junior hospital doctors regaining parity, the pay for every sector has only increased by 5 - 6% which doesn't seem wildly generous. :)

The government have accepted, and will be implementing the recommendations in full of:-
  • The yet unpublished NHSPRB report, which the Royal College of Nursing confirmed as 5.5%. This means a 5.5% pay rise for over a million NHS workers has been confirmed alongside additional pay points for those at Band 8a and above.
  • The School Teachers’ Review Body (STRB) for 2024/25, implementing a substantial pay award for school teachers and leaders of 5.5% from September.
  • The PRRB [Police Renumeration Review Body] and SSRB [Senior Salaries Review Body] consolidated increase of 4.75% to all police officer ranks and pay points with effect from 1 September 2024.
  • The 2024 Pay Award recommendations made by the independent Armed Forces’ Pay Review Body (AFPRB) and Senior Salaries Review Body (SSRB). This year’s award provides a targeted and significant pay uplift for new recruits alongside a large headline increase of 6%.
  • Prison officers to get a 5% pay rise, and judges 6% for 2024-25. The award will deliver a pay rise of at least a 5% base pay increase for all prison staff between Operational Support Grade and Governors (Bands 2-11), with a targeted focus on the lowest paid.
  • Judges will get 6% - the SSRB [Senior Salaries Review Body] pay award of 6% for all judicial office holders within the remit group for 2024/25. This recommendation in full will be applied equally to all judicial office holders, and will be backdated to April 2024.
  • The British Medical Association’s (BMA) junior doctors committee offer of an average rise of 22.3% over 2023-24 and 2024-25. This will deliver an additional pay rise of between 3.71% and 5.05%, averaging 4.05%, on top of the existing 8.8% average pay award for 2023-24. This will be backdated to April 2023.
  • The review body on doctors’ and dentists’ remuneration for 2024-25. It will uplift each part of the pay scale by 6%, plus ÂŁ1,000 on a consolidated basis, averaging an increase of more than 8%. This will be backdated to April 2024.
 
Sinistral said:
No idea where this came from, but it's wrong. The pay awards are the same if you look. :oops:

After collating all the recent announcements there's quite a list, Willie. I do like playing with bullet points. Can't quite see the point of having pay review bodies you ignore. Apart from junior hospital doctors regaining parity, the pay for every sector has only increased by 5 - 6% which doesn't seem wildly generous. :)

The government have accepted, and will be implementing the recommendations in full of:-
  • The yet unpublished NHSPRB report, which the Royal College of Nursing confirmed as 5.5%. This means a 5.5% pay rise for over a million NHS workers has been confirmed alongside additional pay points for those at Band 8a and above.
  • The School Teachers’ Review Body (STRB) for 2024/25, implementing a substantial pay award for school teachers and leaders of 5.5% from September.
  • The PRRB [Police Renumeration Review Body] and SSRB [Senior Salaries Review Body] consolidated increase of 4.75% to all police officer ranks and pay points with effect from 1 September 2024.
  • The 2024 Pay Award recommendations made by the independent Armed Forces’ Pay Review Body (AFPRB) and Senior Salaries Review Body (SSRB). This year’s award provides a targeted and significant pay uplift for new recruits alongside a large headline increase of 6%.
  • Prison officers to get a 5% pay rise, and judges 6% for 2024-25. The award will deliver a pay rise of at least a 5% base pay increase for all prison staff between Operational Support Grade and Governors (Bands 2-11), with a targeted focus on the lowest paid.
  • Judges will get 6% - the SSRB [Senior Salaries Review Body] pay award of 6% for all judicial office holders within the remit group for 2024/25. This recommendation in full will be applied equally to all judicial office holders, and will be backdated to April 2024.
  • The British Medical Association’s (BMA) junior doctors committee offer of an average rise of 22.3% over 2023-24 and 2024-25. This will deliver an additional pay rise of between 3.71% and 5.05%, averaging 4.05%, on top of the existing 8.8% average pay award for 2023-24. This will be backdated to April 2023.
  • The review body on doctors’ and dentists’ remuneration for 2024-25. It will uplift each part of the pay scale by 6%, plus ÂŁ1,000 on a consolidated basis, averaging an increase of more than 8%. This will be backdated to April 2024.
Click to expand...
How much is all of that going to cost?

According to Rachel Reeves there’s a £22 billion hole in the public finances that no-one apparently knew about?

It appears that “Secur-onomics” was just another cynical election ploy, as the idea that money wouldn’t be spent if it couldn’t be afforded has rapidly gone out of the window.

Plus ca change…..
 
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