Labrador deer dog

James0586

Well-Known Member
Good evening,

i have a 13month old fox red labrador that I’m bringing on as a gundog and was thinking about taking here with me to accompany me stalking. I’ve trained gun dogs before but never a deer dog. I understand the fundamentals of basic obedience and steadiness to shot and livestock I’m just looking for some pointers to wear I would start and what I would need to do to get her to locate deer. I know that nothing will happen without getting her out into the field and putting in the hours.

any pointers would be great?
 

.25-06

Well-Known Member
Your lab is born trained he just needs some experience.

99% of the deer you shoot can easily be recovered by your dog. Phone a friend for the rest.

A recent post for 'fc deer dog standard' outlined what would be required.

Start with some red deer feet retrieves to get an interest in deer then start laying some trails 4hrs old then increasing in time a length as the dog gets the hang of it. Avoid roe deer to start with if possible
 

.25-06

Well-Known Member
The advise I have received from tracking organisations was to train on individual herding deer like red deer. So the dog tracks one individual.
They said it could cause problems later in the training
 

Jagare

Well-Known Member
Any hoof will do. I've trained with roe and boar hooves. The last test i did was laid with half a moose hoof. The dog had never had any experience of moose hooves before but past the test with no problem. If you are using blood use it very sparingly. The same with using deer skin, a 6 inch square is more than enough.
Basic obedience training and shot training is the same for tracking dogs as it is for bird dogs.
Lay a short trail 50 mtrs dragging a hoof on a length of string, preferably with the wind to your back , tie off hoof at the end of the track and don't come back up the track but take another way back. Leave for a couple of hours then try the dog on the track. Give the dog the chosen command to start the track if the dog starts following the track its important to STFU . When the dog finds the hoof plenty of praise and a short play with the hoof. Give it a go. Its not rocket surgery.
 

John Gryphon

Well-Known Member
I do like to shoot a deer and take the dog/pup downwind of it and then walk up letting the trainee 'find' the deer,do it a few times and then you have it!
 

Dan Newcombe

Well-Known Member
Interesting, ive given one of my lab pups a go and just dragged a shot deer round a corner etc and he is mad keen.

Suggestion sounds like doing the same but just with a hoof is a better idea?
 

Jagare

Well-Known Member
Interesting, ive given one of my lab pups a go and just dragged a shot deer round a corner etc and he is mad keen.

Suggestion sounds like doing the same but just with a hoof is a better idea?

Give the pup a try on a hoof. 3-4 mtrs of string and a hoof is all you need. 50 mtr first track laid on grass and let the pup play with the hoof and plenty of praise. The pup will get the hang of it in no time
 

norma 308

Well-Known Member
Pm email and I’ll send you a few videos of my fox red working deer she is also a gamebird dog
Doug
 

Keith Edmunds

Well-Known Member
Any hoof will do. I've trained with roe and boar hooves. The last test i did was laid with half a moose hoof. The dog had never had any experience of moose hooves before but past the test with no problem. If you are using blood use it very sparingly. The same with using deer skin, a 6 inch square is more than enough.
Basic obedience training and shot training is the same for tracking dogs as it is for bird dogs.
Lay a short trail 50 mtrs dragging a hoof on a length of string, preferably with the wind to your back , tie off hoof at the end of the track and don't come back up the track but take another way back. Leave for a couple of hours then try the dog on the track. Give the dog the chosen command to start the track if the dog starts following the track its important to STFU . When the dog finds the hoof plenty of praise and a short play with the hoof. Give it a go. Its not rocket surgery.

I totally agree with that method. We have just started laying trails for our 6 month dachshund. We used a dragged Fallow cleave and 50 ml of blood over 100 meters and aged 3 hours. We will do same again next week.

Providing the young dog is successful we gradually increase complexity - either age or trail length (or both) and add some bends. We will also switch to scent shoes and reduce blood.

I must admit that when we first started trail laying I was amazed what a small amount of blood is needed, last year we got down to 10 ml and scent shoes on a 300 meter trail.

Watch this heat - soon dries the blood up - better to lay early morning or evening with the young dog.
 

Jagare

Well-Known Member
I totally agree with that method. We have just started laying trails for our 6 month dachshund. We used a dragged Fallow cleave and 50 ml of blood over 100 meters and aged 3 hours. We will do same again next week.

Providing the young dog is successful we gradually increase complexity - either age or trail length (or both) and add some bends. We will also switch to scent shoes and reduce blood.

I must admit that when we first started trail laying I was amazed what a small amount of blood is needed, last year we got down to 10 ml and scent shoes on a 300 meter trail.

Watch this heat - soon dries the blood up - better to lay early morning or evening with the young dog.


I tend to use very little blood. I've been giving my 3 year old springer a bit of tracking training and use so little blood i doubt it does anything. The middle tracking test i did with the Kopov was 18 hours old laid with a boar hoof over 600mtrs. It was 32c and the dog covered the track in a tad over 11 mins. The judge said that he was too fast on the track and it was a second place but as the dog did the track without fault we got a first. Believe me i was sweating a bit at the end of the track.
Its good to make the track more complex and the age of the trail as the dog gets more confident. It does not take long to get a dog up to a 24hour track.
 

Keith Edmunds

Well-Known Member
I tend to use very little blood. I've been giving my 3 year old springer a bit of tracking training and use so little blood i doubt it does anything. The middle tracking test i did with the Kopov was 18 hours old laid with a boar hoof over 600mtrs. It was 32c and the dog covered the track in a tad over 11 mins. The judge said that he was too fast on the track and it was a second place but as the dog did the track without fault we got a first. Believe me i was sweating a bit at the end of the track.
Its good to make the track more complex and the age of the trail as the dog gets more confident. It does not take long to get a dog up to a 24hour track.

We are now up to 16 hours on our 18 month old dogs.

One issue we have is so much fresh scent on the land that we use. We have a lot of rabbits, roe and muntjac are always present not to mention badgers, hares and foxes. I believe it is not necessarily the age of the trail that adds complexity, more a case of the trail being 'contaminated' by so much fresh, exciting scent. But that is the reality of life.
 

James0586

Well-Known Member
Would it be an idea to start in a less contaminated area in the first instances? Then with experience build on complexity with additional scent and varying terrain?

I’m going to start with basic retrieves of different hoofs and then start laying a trail on familiar ground by dragging it with a stick? Over time and confidence increase complexity and varying scenarios.

Would that hat be a good way to start?
 

Rob-E

Well-Known Member
Would it be an idea to start in a less contaminated area in the first instances? Then with experience build on complexity with additional scent and varying terrain?

I’m going to start with basic retrieves of different hoofs and then start laying a trail on familiar ground by dragging it with a stick? Over time and confidence increase complexity and varying scenarios.

Would that hat be a good way to start?
Neils Sondergard (sp) in his book Working Dogs for Deer says to do it close to home, I assume because this should have least distractions.
It's a good book if a little pricey.
 

Jagare

Well-Known Member
We are now up to 16 hours on our 18 month old dogs.

One issue we have is so much fresh scent on the land that we use. We have a lot of rabbits, roe and muntjac are always present not to mention badgers, hares and foxes. I believe it is not necessarily the age of the trail that adds complexity, more a case of the trail being 'contaminated' by so much fresh, exciting scent. But that is the reality of life.

When you lay a trail you need to mark it so you know exact where it goes. If the dog strays of the laid track onto a fresh track just stand still till the dog comes back on track. By marking the track its easy to keep the dog on the right one. I mark the track with a cloths peg with a colored plastic tape as in the photo. A single colour for the strait bits and two pegs and tape for a turn in the track. As i do the track and pass each peg i remove it and hang it on the band round my neck. A little tip if you are using blood and the pegs and tape, Don't get blood on the pegs or tape or the dog will pick up the scent from them from quite a distance
 

Attachments

  • 240.jpg
    240.jpg
    512.8 KB · Views: 42

Jagare

Well-Known Member
Would it be an idea to start in a less contaminated area in the first instances? Then with experience build on complexity with additional scent and varying terrain?

I’m going to start with basic retrieves of different hoofs and then start laying a trail on familiar ground by dragging it with a stick? Over time and confidence increase complexity and varying scenarios.

Would that hat be a good way to start?

Just use a bit of string to pull the hoof. If you think a stick will stop the dog following your scent you would be wrong. Its the same with tracking shoes great bit of kit for laying a track but your still laying your scent when using the tracking shoes. Don't worry about retrieving hooves just lay a simple strait trail on a nice grass field and get the dog to track the hoof. It may not do a perfect track but when it finds the hoof play with the dog and have a game with it. Its amazing how many people have no idea how to play with their dogs and be a little silly. The dog will soon think that a hoof is the best thing ever
 
Top