Lamping deer

[Erik Hamburger]

No doubt a controversial question but one I still want to put to the forum.

I am aware that legal deer shooting hours are between 1 hour before sunrise until 1 hour after sunset.
I am also aware that it is illegal to use lamps to shoot deer.

However, on the assumption that the use of a lamp is generally asumed to be done at night (when it is illegal to shoot deer, between the 1 hour after sunset and 1 hour before sunrise) my question is this:
What is my position if I use a red LED light during 'deer-legal daylight hours' but when it is in fact starting to get quite dark, for example typically during the last 15-20 Min of 'legal' deer culling hours when working from a high seat in the evening? I generally reach a point where I decide to stop when legally I still have 15-20 min left, as I wouldn't be able to see the difference between a doe or a buck as the light is fading so fast.

I find a small red gunlight such as the new and popular red LED's can help enormously in identifying an animal (male or female) without scaring them away.
My thinking is that if it helps me to ID the sex/species and place the shot correctly, it is certainly NOT 'unsporty'. But is it legal?
Those that use NV may also be interested in the responses.

And to those that own scopes and Bino's of Brand names starting with Z, S and S...: Yes, you have a 10-15 min advantage over those who have to make do with lesser Brands, I know, I know....

 

[palmer_mike]

Pretty sure it's illegal, but sure you'll get a much more definitive answer from someone else on here.

 

[paul o']

 

[bogtrotter]

Can't remember the exact wording but it goes something like Its illegal to use a light-intensifying, heat sensitive or other special device.

 

[murrayb]

This should be interesting

 

[smullery]

No doubt a controversial question but one I still want to put to the forum.

I am aware that legal deer shooting hours are between 1 hour before sunrise until 1 hour after sunset.
I am also aware that it is illegal to use lamps to shoot deer.

However, on the assumption that the use of a lamp is generally asumed to be done at night (when it is illegal to shoot deer, between the 1 hour after sunset and 1 hour before sunrise) my question is this:
What is my position if I use a red LED light during 'deer-legal daylight hours' but when it is in fact starting to get quite dark, for example typically during the last 15-20 Min of 'legal' deer culling hours when working from a high seat in the evening? I generally reach a point where I decide to stop when legally I still have 15-20 min left, as I wouldn't be able to see the difference between a doe or a buck as the light is fading so fast.

I find a small red gunlight such as the new and popular red LED's can help enormously in identifying an animal (male or female) without scaring them away.
My thinking is that if it helps me to ID the sex/species and place the shot correctly, it is certainly NOT 'unsporty'. But is it legal?
Those that use NV may also be interested in the responses.

And to those that own scopes and Bino's of Brand names starting with Z, S and S...: Yes, you have a 10-15 min advantage over those who have to make do with lesser Brands, I know, I know....

Erik Hamburger,

"I am aware that legal deer shooting hours are between 1 hour before sunrise until 1 hour after sunset"


Doesn't mean it's compulsory to shoot them. If you can't see to identify then don't shoot. Whether it's poor light, fog/mist or sun glare.

Stan

 

[Steve7046]

+1

 

[375 mag]

If you cant see it don't shoot it there will always be next time !

 

[223]

If you cant see it don't shoot it there will always be next time !

+1

 

[dropmdead]

If you cant see it don't shoot it there will always be next time !

+1

 

[arron]

i think it is illegal to use artificial light to shoot deer full stop , so if it gets to dark to shoot in legal sunset /sunrise times and you had to use artificial light to spot or identify ,and shoot the deer , then you are breaking the law , but i may be wrong !

 

[howy308]

If is a big word , do not shoot deer with a lamp, only if your a FC contractor and you want to decimate your quarry.

 

[Uncle Norm]

Can't remember the exact wording but it goes something like Its illegal to use a light-intensifying, heat sensitive or other special device.

Those words ring a bell with me too. However I have just re-read the Deer Act 1991 and the 2007 Regulatory Reform Order but can find no reference to lights etc.
Returning to the OP's original question, it would appear that the circumstances outlined are not prohibited by the main Act. So this is now bugging me enough to go and get the books out. I really should know better but this question has aroused my curiosity.

 

[6pointer]

If you can't see the cross hair you can always turn on your Illuminated Reticule/ (Or would that be breaking the law)

 

[8x57]

Wildlife and Countryside Act perhaps?????

The words seem familiar to me also but I was wondering if it was in reference to legislation in another country such as Germany. Once again only a thought.

 

[Erik Hamburger]

Some interesting replies so far - thank you!

So.
Is my interpretation correct that one cannot use an illuminated recticle scope? ofcourse not. However when strictly interpreting the wording in the Act you can only conclude that, in fact, you can't.
And one cannot use the now very popular and heavily promoted FLIR sights to find deer and than shoot them using a traditional (non illuminated) scope? Ofcourse not. And the FLIR sights are promoted as being excellent to find wildlife, also during the day in heavy vegetation, fog & mist, during bad viseability..

You see, these things are a (legal) can of worms. Thinking about it all, there is legal and illegal; moral and immoral; right and wrong; sporty and unsporty; ethical and unethical. And everybody has different boundaries for the different species they hunt/cull/control.

And how many deer-stalkers who consider themselves 100% ethical and abiding by the Law use a NV monucular during the last 10-20min. of light and than use a IR scope to cull the animal. Illegal, isn't it?

Btw, deer fellow SD user, I don't have NV, I don't use and IR scope and I don't have a FLIR camera so please don't shoot me down.
However, I do have prescription glasses and some colour-blindness issues and my reduced ability to spot and ID deer during twilight hours made me wonder about these issues.

 

[CharlieT]

​An interesting question and one I have never previously given thought to.

However, as the use of illuminating devices is not prohibited by legislation, I am minded to believe that such an act, as set out in your OP, is perfectly legal.

Perhaps not the done thing but I'm not talking morals here, just points of law.

 

[Uncle Norm]

Some interesting replies so far - thank you!

So.
Is my interpretation correct that one cannot use an illuminated recticle scope? ofcourse not. However when strictly interpreting the wording in the Act you can only conclude that, in fact, you can't.
And one cannot use the now very popular and heavily promoted FLIR sights to find deer and than shoot them using a traditional (non illuminated) scope? Ofcourse not. And the FLIR sights are promoted as being excellent to find wildlife, also during the day in heavy vegetation, fog & mist, during bad viseability..

You see, these things are a (legal) can of worms. Thinking about it all, there is legal and illegal; moral and immoral; right and wrong; sporty and unsporty; ethical and unethical. And everybody has different boundaries for the different species they hunt/cull/control.

And how many deer-stalkers who consider themselves 100% ethical and abiding by the Law use a NV monucular during the last 10-20min. of light and than use a IR scope to cull the animal. Illegal, isn't it?

Btw, deer fellow SD user, I don't have NV, I don't use and IR scope and I don't have a FLIR camera so please don't shoot me down.
However, I do have prescription glasses and some colour-blindness issues and my reduced ability to spot and ID deer during twilight hours made me wonder about these issues.

Thank you for producing such a thought-provoking post. Your OP had the dubious honour of sending me off to consult my books, for the first time since I retired.
This thread could run for some considerable time. The progress of technology, ethics, attitudes and the interpretation of Law is a good cocktail for a lively debate methinks.

 

[artschool]

would the relevant bit of legislation be this: Wildlife and Countryside act 1981, which prohibits the use of any " form of artificial lighting, mirror or other dazzling device" except against fox, rabbit and feral pigeon.

 

[bewsher500]

I am intrigued, if you cant see it to identify it through a pair of binos or a high powered scope, (and need to use an LED torch to do so)
how do you shoot it?

if the sight picture is that bad how can you be sure where you are aiming?