Land inspection/ survey - what to expect?

[SD198]

Hi all - I have applied for a variation to shoot deer calibre on a permission where I currently only shoot .22LR. My FEO obviously needs to inspect/ survey the land to ensure it is safe for deer calibre use, with me present. My questions are:

1. just what tends to be involved in such an inspection/ survey? I presume it will entail me taking them round the permission highlighting the presence of neighbouring properties/ rights of way/ roads and showing them where the deer tend to be found and my proposed angles of fire/ backstops etc?

2. on this particular permission, whilst it is not huge (25 acres ish), the area where the deer tend to be found is at the bottom of a valley with steep sides that I will be shooting down in to - so I am hoping there will not be a problem with getting the land approved; although I presume they could specifically limit the shooting of deer to that one particular area of the permission?

3. how does the potential use of a high seat feature in these sorts of inspections/ surveys? I have been told that they can approve land for deer shooting "from a high seat only"? Would I be right to presume that if a high seat is to be used, that should presumably address any concerns they may have about angle of fire/ backstop?

4. are they likely to be interested at all in issues such as the risk of a shot deer running over a boundary onto neighbouring land (not strictly a "safety" issue I guess)? Due to fencing etc I really don't see this as a problem on the permission in question, I just want to be prepared for any questions

Thanks for any help

 

[Oracle]

I think within your OP you have covered all the answers you need to address and explain to the FEO. Although you do not specify the deer legal calibre you you wish to use, many FEOs will always err on the side of caution, dependant on calibre and acreage of the nominated land. I must admit that Hants FLO have upped their game over the past couple of years and, should you encounter any problems, I have found the new licensing manage Tony Hill to be very approachable and open minded on licensing matters.

 

[Essex stalker]

How long have you had a firearms licence. Can you not apply for an open ticket

 

[bullet chucker]

First off, does your permission know and agree to you shooting deer on that land? He/She will be asked by the FLO.
As said above, what calibre are you requesting as it needs to be deer legal and also you would want to specify Fox and any other legal quarry so that you were not limited to its effective use.also include zeroing, and on unspecified ranges, this will open up your freedom of use and not hold you to your present permission if another opportunity arises.
Hope this helps in some way to your application for the full bore rifle, Good luck!

BC.

 

[NoIDeer]

Don't forget the importance of controlling deer on that land. Crop damage act.

 

[finnbear270]

If your safe with a rifle, your safe with a rifle, Land is not intrinsically unsafe, it's the sportsperson behind the butt that has the common sense & safety bit, .22 LR?, I wouldn't want to get in the way of one wrongly aimed.

 

[JTO]

Join BASC, if you are not already a member, and let him know you are a member, with insurance.
They should know that everything is open to appeal and BASC will foot your bill if you should appeal on strong grounds.

 

[Lateral]

It's ALL about safety. The FEO doesn't care about deer numbers, only in as much as you need deer on the permission to show "good reason" for needing a deer legal calibre, and it being conditioned for deer.

Make sure you understand all the dangers of shooting the ground, and make sure he knows you know. Seats are often the best option on a small permission, where you don't have the room, or the cover to stalk very easily. FEO's also love seats, again, purely for safety. Have a look around, and pick a few spots you think will cover where the deer tend to be, and are also very safe. Let the FEO know where, and why you have chosen the positions.

Deer can run, regardless on the size of the ground, and inevitably, this can, and will happen at some point, whether you're shooting 25, or 2500 acres !


Good luck with it.

 

[finnbear270]

If you have your L1 , You will have already demonstrated what you would & would not consider safe to shoot.

 

[VSS]

Before I had an open ticket all land clearance was done simply by the FEO looking at a map of the ground while seated at my kitchen table. Remember the chocolate hob-nobs!
I just pointed out all the footpaths and other high risk areas, indicated what I thought were safe angles of fire, and that was that.

 

[SD198]

Hi all - thanks for all the helpful responses. I've had my FAC since 2014 and I gather I am likely to be granted an open ticket upon renewal. I have been shooting the permission in question for years and years now, day and night with .22LR without any issues at all, so I am hoping there will not be any problem with getting approval for deer calibre over at least the "valley" area (esp if I use a high seat - although I would have thought that shooting down a 50m slope into a valley with the same slope on the other side, off shooting sticks would be considered a reasonably safe shot even without a high seat?). Having done some research and taken advice (and not wanting to open any cans of worms!) I've applied for .308 even though its my first deer calibre (with the sorts of shots I have just described being likely, I can't really see why they should LOGICALLY have any objection to .308 compared to say .243). As for deer on the permission causing damage - whilst the fact is that they do, my understanding was that provided there are deer present and you have permission from the owner to shoot them (which I do), that is "good reason" per se? As far as I can deduce, the only potential objection could be the relative close proximity of boundaries - with the risk of a shot deer making it over the boundary before expiring; although surely that is simply not a "safety" issue that they are entitled to take into account?

 

[finnbear270]

Don't be pushed into "I think you should start off using a .243,"

 

[Irish Bob]

Keep mentioning safe backstops. Be aware of and point out rights of way, other land holdings and areas you consider to carry risk. Then all the steps you are taking to eliminate / minimise that risk. For example, this area provides a good backstop. There is a right of way over there, I therefore shoot away from and not toward it. It Ian flat here so I use a high seat.

 

[CharlieT]

Just remember that the purpose of the visit is two fold. To assess both you and the land.

You seem to have covered all the bases so, be polite but forceful and demonstrate all you have said in your OP.

 

[Harry Brown]

My own first piece of land for deer calibre was similar in size to yours O.P. It was initially refused but that was due to the FEO not getting out her car! After some calls from myself, I later met her on site and after a brief walk around the permission she was prepared to grant .308, but due to several nearby main A roads and few backstops she liked that I was planning to use a highseat. Ticket came back with no mention of a highseat, but obviously that's what I use on that perm. I can't see you'll have any issues whatsoever on your land.

 

[Whitebeard]

Just remember that the purpose of the visit is two fold. To assess both you and the land.

Sorry cant agree, there should not be any assessment of the certificate holder he has already proved his suitability to possesse and shoot firearms and has by the very issue of that certificate been deemed suitable by the police.

Ian.

 

[Harry Brown]

Sorry cant agree, there should not be any assessment of the certificate holder he has already proved his suitability to possesse and shoot firearms and has by the very issue of that certificate been deemed suitable by the police.

Ian.

I'm not looking to argue the toss here, but, I agree with CharlieT. Being suitable to use a R/F (Which many will have been deemed fit ) does not mean they would be safe with a high power C/F without reasonable experience/tuition. Some who shoot R/F are unsafe and shoot through hedgerows with footpaths the other side, as a couple of shooters recently did in my area and as a result lost their tickets, that's the way it is and why the FLO do want to get an idea of who they are issuing a larger cal to.
Not all shooters are as clued up as the O.P as I'm sure we've all met one or two who shouldn't be trusted with a gatgun!

 

[Oracle]

1. I agree with Ian on this and it is also made quite clear within the Guidance.
   
   13.26 It is desirable that new applicants should have some previous experience of the safe use of firearms before using such rifles. Experience is neither cartridge nor ammunition type exclusive. It may include the shooting of any quarry species. The aspect that police are looking to be satisfied about is the competency of the applicant to take a safe shot every time. The shooting of any quarry requires a safe backstop for the shot, and such experience is transferable between quarry species.

 

[CharlieT]

1. I agree with Ian on this and it is also made quite clear within the Guidance.
   
   13.26 It is desirable that new applicants should have some previous experience of the safe use of firearms before using such rifles. Experience is neither cartridge nor ammunition type exclusive. It may include the shooting of any quarry species. The aspect that police are looking to be satisfied about is the competency of the applicant to take a safe shot every time. The shooting of any quarry requires a safe backstop for the shot, and such experience is transferable between quarry species.

That may be, but don't forget this...........

13.11 It is accepted that land is not intrinsically “safe” or “unsafe” and that any shooter willhave to exercise a strong measure of discretion in deciding whether to shoot in particularcircumstances. However, the police will wish to be satisfied as part of “good reason” thatthe land nominated is not clearly unsuitable for the types of firearms to be used. The landinspection is intended only as part of the process of verifying that a “good reason” exists.It should not normally be extended to other areas of land on which the applicant intends toshoot unless there is to be a condition restricting a new shooter to specified land only. Aninspection, where it is required, may provide a good opportunity to confirm that the applicantunderstands the characteristics of the land and the best places to shoot safely on it.

 

[countrryboy]

Could u not apply to open ur FAC at the sametime as the variation for a deer rifle?
Then if u had an open ticket it would save everyone the time of going out to inspect the ground (but I must admit not used to all this ground clearance asit doesn't happen in scotland)