Land Reform (Scotland) Bill 2015 - Sporting Rates

DEER STALKER

Well-Known Member
Anyone able to provide me with specific details with regards to the likely rateable values for a deer forest syndicate lease/permit.

What would the costs be for an average 6k lease and if you have more than one how are multiple syndicates rateable values calculated?


Regards

DS
 

Tet

Member
Hi Deer Stalker,

At the moment I'm not sure that anyone knows, the legislation that came in to force on the 1st April 2017 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2016/18/part/6/enacted talks about the process but as yet no valuations have been completed.

If you currently has a Lease then you should read it losely to to what, if anything, is said about the payment of rates and who will be responsible.

Sorry, I can't help more, but for those living/working/shooting north of the border these are 'interesting times' as I think the general concensus is that the SNP if re-elected will look to continue their philosophical drive to punish land ownership and country sports.

Good luck

Tet.
 

DEER STALKER

Well-Known Member
Thanks Tet, I am responsible for the business rates for sporting purposes.

We can only hope she isn't re-elected - I'm sure the reason she is so angry is because nature hasn't been kind to her?
 

countrryboy

Well-Known Member
I wouldn't worry too much, just yet.
It will be a complete farce/can of worms. If ur on forestry ground it could be different again as actually providing a service tp protect tree growth

She will get back in and no doubt by a landslide again thou.
 

Mick9abf

Well-Known Member
Nobody including the SNP know (no surprise), or they (SG) do know but are keeping it quiet.

I understand however that they will back date the sporting rates so I would imagine lease holders/landowners will be stung, which of course is the whole purpose of the legislation as, in my opinion, it will assist in devaluing land so that it can be bought cheaply for 'other uses'.

It is political move and nothing else.
 

liddlesdale

Well-Known Member
Received this week off FSC.

Dear Sir,


Land Reform (Scotland) Bill 2015 – Sporting Rates


As you may be aware, one of the outcomes of the Land Reform Bill (Scotland) 2015 is that the exemption for non-domestic rates for shootings and deer forests has been repealed.

The District Valuers wrote to Forest Enterprise Scotland (FES) in 2016 requesting information to be provided to them in order to allow them to calculate Business Rates for Sporting purposes. FES consequently provided the District Valuers with the relevant information.

This letter is to make you aware that the relevant Valuation Board may be in touch with you in the coming months regarding business rates associated with your Lease/Permit.

The Valuers have not provided any specific details of what the rateable values are likely to be, or a specific timetable for the roll-out.
 

Mick9abf

Well-Known Member
Just more of the usual well thought out rural SNP policies - completely out of touch with rural affairs and the rural economy in Scotland.

Looking at this I would expect that, naturally, shooting leases will rise by an average of £4 per hectare if they fall within the rateable framework. There are reductions for certain circumstances - interesting times ahead.

https://www.saa.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Shooting-Rights-Deer-Forests_R2017_MPC35.pdf

Business rates relief - mygov.scot

Non Domestic Valuation - Scottish Assessors
 
Last edited:

.25-06

Well-Known Member
Deer god you need to be an MP to afford that. £5/ha Lodgepole restock X circa 1000ha + £200 doctors bribery fee every 5yrs. Almost creates the impression SNP don't want it to continue.

Just more of the usual well thought out rural SNP policies - completely out of touch with rural affairs and the rural economy in Scotland.

Looking at this I would expect that, naturally, shooting leases will rise by an average of £4 per hectare if they fall within the rateable framework. There are reductions for certain circumstances - interesting times ahead.

https://www.saa.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Shooting-Rights-Deer-Forests_R2017_MPC35.pdf

Business rates relief - mygov.scot

Non Domestic Valuation - Scottish Assessors
 

Freeforester

Well-Known Member
The unintended consequence of this (coupled with PS bearing down on new FAC applicants) will surely be a further general reduction in deer management effort, leading to increased damage to sylvicultural and natural heritage interests.
 

countrryboy

Well-Known Member
Sorry to be silly here, had a look thru those links.

So pretty much most ground in Scotland is around 4-5 quid a hectare 'rates' with moorland around £2.

I can see ur big more commercial shoots being able to swallow that quite easily, esp pheasant shoots as often there not over massive areas (be plenty of small commercial shoots on as little as 1000 acres)

If the £2 an acre is true and passed on to leasholders (which I expect it will be) that will see our rent double and to be honest could easily finish our small syndicate and I'm sure that will cripple many small working class shoots and diy farm type syndicates.
I imagine it would be the exact same with most stalking syndicates too, if u have 1-2000 acres that's an extra 4k on ur lease, that's a lot of money

Must admit I find it really ironic that a 'tax' to stop wealthy overseas landowners who earn there money elsewhere and treat there highland estates like a playthings are the very people who can afford the tax and will affect least, but ur small locals syndicates and landowners trying to work the land and make a living of it
I can see in many cases it would be better ofr the landowner/farmer simply to stop having a shoot on there land.

I take it if u stop getting a rent/income for shooting ur no longer laible for the rates?
 

Chanty Wrassler

Well-Known Member
Looking at this I would expect that, naturally, shooting leases will rise by an average of £4 per hectare if they fall within the rateable framework.
AFAIK, in line with all other non-domestic rates, any rates due will be owed by the lease holder, not the land owner, so no reason for the price of leases to rise; in fact, as the lease holders would then be paying rates, they might well tell the land owners to drop the price of the leases or find new customers :) (If they do not find sporting tenants, the land owners will be stuck with paying the rates themselves)

I do not see how a cost of £4 per hectare can be suggested when the poundage is not yet known - current poundage for business rates is 46.6 pence .

I haven't seen details of the reliefs (for business rates there is 100% relief on RV below £15000) and would appreciate a point to any hard figures published.
 

Kalahari

Well-Known Member
The trouble with closing down the shoot is that the rates still might have to be paid, looking at the initial stuff that came out it seems that the results could be charged on the sporting value, not the money earned so the landowner/leaseholder will still be liable even if no sporting activity occurs.

David.
 

Tom D

Well-Known Member
The trouble with closing down the shoot is that the rates still might have to be paid, looking at the initial stuff that came out it seems that the results could be charged on the sporting value, not the money earned so the landowner/leaseholder will still be liable even if no sporting activity occurs.

David.
Does that mean that a land owner who was an anti, and wouldn't have any shooting on his land on principle would still have to pay?
 

Kalahari

Well-Known Member
As far as I can see yes, (quite funny I guess) but I am not a lawyer. Time for you guys in Scotland to get serious legal advice.

David.
 

countrryboy

Well-Known Member
The trouble with closing down the shoot is that the rates still might have to be paid, looking at the initial stuff that came out it seems that the results could be charged on the sporting value, not the money earned so the landowner/leaseholder will still be liable even if no sporting activity occurs.

David.
While it wouldn't surprise me if that was the case.
But it's a strange 1 that extra £2 an acre will make most small syndicate (1-200 even to 1000 birds) type shoots un viable or atleast quite expensive for wot they are.

Surely a value is only wot someone is willing to pay for it and it's going to be the death of many small syndicates and force shoots to put more birds down so they can charge more and swallow any extra charges.

In true typical SNP style they introduced a tax to try to curbe foreign absentee landlords yet there the only folk that can really afford the 'rates' a total f''k up.

Ps Does anyone know wot rate the old sporting taxes where set at before they stopped as where cost more to collect than they made
 

JTO

Well-Known Member
Are empty/un-used industrial/commercial premises liable for business rates in Scotland? That might be a clue.
 

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