Law change on muntjac

countrryboy

Well-Known Member
Wouldlamping munties work? Do they come out into the fields at night to feed??

Must admit some of these bills do worry me, as while i totally agree with controlling alien species it is hypocritical to then release pheasants or red legs on a shoot.
These sort of 'harmless' bills could easily be used/misused to stop/control game shooting in the future
 

Deermanagement

Well-Known Member
Haven't read through all the comments but have thought for some while that muntjac may be the future of stalking, too easy for the wrong people to acquire thermal equipment and moderators, knocking off the larger deer, just leaving the woodland hugging muntjac safe. Introduce anything other than traditional stalking then even this future may be lost in all but the thickest forests and woodland.

If this happens, there will be no need for your firearms.....:-|

Anything other than knowledge and good shooting should not be tolerated or even discussed.
 

foxdropper

Well-Known Member
It amuses me to read that some think thermal and night vision will be the end of anything .Keepers here had it for years but there’s still enough foxes about .I use it for foxing ,rabbits and various other applications .
Field craft and a knowledge of the land still come into play and then there’s the reality that the ir isn’t as unseen as we’d like and some animals have learnt to avoid it .Anyone having it take the time to look at your set up from afar !!There is black ir but won’t be doing that yet .
Muntjac are here to stay ,too many in and around housing developments ,back gardens and schools .
Thermal gear in woodland ,daylight ,however is a game changer for anyone serious about knocking numbers down .
The arsepca must get a fair few call outs a year on these small deer but I now wonder what their disposal policy will be ,incinerate or chuck in the nearest brambles lol.
 

sikamalc

Administrator
Site Staff
I think the law relating to rereleasing Muntjac has been in place sometime. As for night vision, I am also of the opinion that it has its uses, although I do not own any. However I am sure there are some unscrupulous people who use it for the wrong reasons.
 

BryanDC

Well-Known Member
Everything I have ever read about invasive species treats species such as pheasants as naturalised as they have been here so long. The same goes for Fallow. It is more recent introductions and those that threaten native species that are being targeted. I'm not sure I understand the argument about night vision. If it is allowed for controlling foxes and rabbits now what is the difference if it was allowed for Muntjac only. Surely anyone that wants to use it illegally to shoot deer could do so now. I also read that there has already been a consultation regarding the enforcement of these new laws depending on the outcome of Brexit. Not sure what the decision is though.
 

Orion

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure I understand the argument about night vision. If it is allowed for controlling foxes and rabbits now what is the difference if it was allowed for Muntjac only. Surely anyone that wants to use it illegally to shoot deer could do so now.
Spot on. It’s a point that naysayers and lawmakers on many subjects, not just this one, sometimes forget. If you restrict something from lawful use you will only penalise those who abide by the law - it never works, as criminals don’t care to comply anyway, so who suffers or is inconvenienced at the end of the day?
 

Hornet 6

Well-Known Member
Where do you draw the line as regards natural to this country ?
Do we go back to natural to this country only if it/they arrived before the last land bridge to the continent was flooded ?
Also any animals that became extinct over the years but has been re-introduced should also go on the cull list ?
Maybe eradicate game fish, that are after all either managed or are just tourists to our rivers.
But if any of this goes ahead then reared game birds have to be the first to get the chop surely ?

Neil.
 

BryanDC

Well-Known Member
Where do you draw the line as regards natural to this country ?
Do we go back to natural to this country only if it/they arrived before the last land bridge to the continent was flooded ?
Also any animals that became extinct over the years but has been re-introduced should also go on the cull list ?
Maybe eradicate game fish, that are after all either managed or are just tourists to our rivers.
But if any of this goes ahead then reared game birds have to be the first to get the chop surely ?

Neil.
No. The line is already drawn. As I already said it is recent introductions that cause harm to the environment or other native or natural species. If a bird can fly to the UK or a fish can swim across the sea to get to the UK then that is natural migration and cannot be considered as invasive, unless the source was from outside the natural range of that species. i.e Mitten crabs in the bilges of a ship.
The muntjac would never have arrived in Europe without mans help and it damages the environment.
The grey squirrel could not have got to Europe without help and it is damaging to the native species.
The signal crayfish was brought to Europe by man and has decimated the native crayfish population.

The Pheasant was introduced by man a long time ago but has reached a balance with nature and doesn't harm the environment. But if Britain had native pheasants that interbred with them, resulting in hybrids that damaged the native species then that too would be on the list like the Ruddy duck is.


Link to the list of species and why they are on the list
 

Ronin

Distinguished Member
Woodlands trust are a waste of time 3 lots of shooting around Durham /northumberland went to mates. Of the di from Cumbria make what you think out of that

Having been an applicant in the process of obtaining stalking (unsuccessfully) at a Woodland Trust managed area of woodland I found the process very fair and transparent.

Applicants have to fit a set criteria (paper sift) if they pass they are then interviewed by a panel and if successful have to pass a skills test.

Hardly something that could be described as a “jobs for the boys jolly” think it quite wrong to cast an allegation like that without sound evidence.
 

monarman

Well-Known Member
Woodlands trust are a waste of time 3 lots of shooting around Durham /northumberland went to mates. Of the di from Cumbria make what you think out of that
I thought it was a fair and open process where the right people for the job were picked on their merits?..... the right paperwork, experience,being able to pass the shooting test and attitude when dealing with members of the public....
The DI were tasked with a job on behalf of a very large charity .... I doubt they'd just give ground to "mates"....
 

Shadrach2986

Well-Known Member
Thermal is a game changer when you are out, personally I wouldn't use one as I have no pressure really to shoot lots of dear, but can understand why some would use it, and like anything, in the wrong hands it's dangerous!!!
 

243varmint

Well-Known Member
I thought it was a fair and open process where the right people for the job were picked on their merits?..... the right paperwork, experience,being able to pass the shooting test and attitude when dealing with members of the public....
The DI were tasked with a job on behalf of a very large charity .... I doubt they'd just give ground to "mates"....
Funny how an area near us is now stalked by DI guys who didn’t go through the process... mmmmmm. Jobs for the boys.

There is a lot of ‘do as I say not as I do’ but that’s not for a public forum.
Woodland Trust/DI not asking for hand over details, cull records. Not even informing ‘lease holders’ that their lease was over and a possible ‘blue on blue’ could have happened???
Where as before the local area Woodland Trust area managers knew the LOCAL stalkers on the ground who used to pick litter up while out, inform them of windblown trees across stock fences, interact with WT volunteers and members of the public... do you want me to continue.
 

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