Lead ammunition - BASC statement in response to RSPB and WWT open letter

big ears

Well-Known Member
sounds easy just shoot steel in the 12ga short term may allow most to continue but ask yourself in the long term how does the next generation enter the sport, most young will start with a .410 or 28ga.
Club insurance will probably go up, as steel shot is seen as a greater risk of ricochet than lead shot.

But I believe clay shooting is about to start declining from its current popularity, due already to the very significant increases in the cost of clays and cartridges and that’s before the ban on lead, RC put their prices up yet again yesterday I have been told, which probably means the rest will follow soon.

And if anybody thinks that their is enough steel shot manufacturing capacity present to replace all lead shot across the EU and U.K. (all made in china) or that it will magically appear in the next few years, given the global shortage of steel production (Ukrainian and Russia were big exporters of steel) then they are living in a different universe.
So following your arguments it’s the cost rather than the ammo that is affecting clay shooting.
I’d agree. It is an expensive sport that fewer and fewer are able to afford. That is independent if what is shot.
Thanks to this government the rich have got richer and the poorer poorer. This perhaps is the biggest risk to shooting not the lead shot ban.
 

enfieldspares

Well-Known Member
Looked into this. There is already non toxic air gun pellets being produced. The market is big enough for more to follow suit.
Don’t think it’s as gloomy as you predict
And have you bought some? Tried some? I have. Expensive. Poor accuracy. More susceptible to wind. Don't expand on impact. Overall no benefits just disbenefits.
 

MW73

Well-Known Member
Looked into this. There is already non toxic air gun pellets being produced. The market is big enough for more to follow suit.
Don’t think it’s as gloomy as you predict
All of the "green" airgun pellets are pretty poor in all areas most importantly accuracy, a big difference between springer/gas ram and pcp performance when using the same brand.

Those boys are on the worry train also and I have my ticket too... I hope something gets sorted for those of us that maybe left with nothing more than paperweights if lead alternatives don't do what is claimed on the tin.
 

Kevgun

Well-Known Member
Looked into this. There is already non toxic air gun pellets being produced. The market is big enough for more to follow suit.
Don’t think it’s as gloomy as you predict
Yes I know, hopefully they might be better than the ones I have already tried, also try getting some in .20 and get back to me I would be very interested in some.
 

Kevgun

Well-Known Member
This was interesting to watch, not sure where he gets the figures from, but I would imagine from sales figures< but what I said about Game shooting in a earlier post using the most lead, but even these figures surprised me

Lead ban video
 

robs5230

Active Member
This was interesting to watch, not sure where he gets the figures from, but I would imagine from sales figures< but what I said about Game shooting in a earlier post using the most lead, but even these figures surprised me

Lead ban video
Pretty sure he lifted most of those figures from BASC documents
 

Liveonce

Well-Known Member
So following your arguments it’s the cost rather than the ammo that is affecting clay shooting.
I’d agree. It is an expensive sport that fewer and fewer are able to afford. That is independent if what is shot.
Thanks to this government the rich have got richer and the poorer poorer. This perhaps is the biggest risk to shooting not the lead shot ban.

indeed it initial will be cost, but how will the young of the future enter the sport without the likes of the .410 or 28gauge, how many started their love of shooting with a .410?

I come back to the view that any lead ban with a goal of protecting the environment and health should start with the biggest source of the risk which must be game shooting especially where the game enters the food chain.
 
Last edited:

Norfolk Deer Search

Well-Known Member
indeed it initial will be cost, but how will the young of the future enter the sport without the likes of the .410 or 28gauge, how many started their love of shooting with a .410?

I come back to the view that any lead ban with a goal of protecting the environment and health should start with the biggest source of the risk which must be game shooting especially where the game enters the food chain.
Whilst is agree 100% with what you are saying, but unfortunately there can not be one rule for one and not for another!

That simply will not work!
 

Liveonce

Well-Known Member
Whilst is agree 100% with what you are saying, but unfortunately there can not be one rule for one and not for another!

That simply will not work!
do we not have that now with wildfowling and even different rules within wildfowling between england and scotland?

Or are we to have prohibition on the many to solve an issue caused by the few for a few months of the each year.
 

dunwater

Well-Known Member
And have you bought some? Tried some? I have. Expensive. Poor accuracy. More susceptible to wind. Don't expand on impact. Overall no benefits just disbenefits.
I tried a few rounds non lead through the .22 and they were truly abysmal, but I don’t know whether that’s an intrinsic problem due incompatibility with rifling and twist or down to quality control issues, hopefully its the latter, in which case theres major improvements coming soon.
 

big ears

Well-Known Member
indeed it initial will be cost, but how will the young of the future enter the sport without the likes of the .410 or 28gauge, how many started their love of shooting with a .410?

I come back to the view that any lead ban with a goal of protecting the environment and health should start with the biggest source of the risk which must be game shooting especially where the game enters the food chain.
Game shooting is the main thing I agree. Not because of using lead but how it is run. There is little doubt that the big shoots that put tens of thousands of birds down a year do alter the local ecosystem massively in a negative way. Their behaviour of bulldozing carcasses after being brested out into pits (photos readily available) does little to promote ease amongst most of the British public. As said before The push to massive bird days (1000) turns this from a sport to wantant killing in the eyes of the public. Even Wild justice does not have an issue with ‘walked up, one for the pot’ approach as they call it, it’s the damage to biodiversity they don’t like. They are wrong about grouse moors but not about large scale driven shoots I hate to admit. Arise now lead! The evidence for health issues in humans is weak, but there is concern. This is enough to cause the situation we are in. We are human beings and you only need to read the posts on this website to realise that a voluntary introduction will not work hence the need for a total ban.
With such a stance there will be losers and and as you say children entering the sport will find it difficult but perhaps this is the added benefit the antis see. Stop people entering means it dies out.
I don’t know the answer and think as you have said the smaller calibre shot guns are difficult but from a rifle perspective I’m hoping a rim fire solution then the youngsters can progress from 22lr to 22 centrefire and then onwards.
What I do know is we ALL need to act as one, register our concerns in a constructive way, and ask of the politicians that good alternatives are made available BEFORE the hammer falls. This may be utopic but it is worth a put rather than just grousing. For me I will be writing to my MP but he is about as useful as a chocolate teapot so I’m not holding my breath but I still will be doing it.
 

big ears

Well-Known Member
I tried a few rounds non lead through the .22 and they were truly abysmal, but I don’t know whether that’s an intrinsic problem due incompatibility with rifling and twist or down to quality control issues, hopefully its the latter, in which case theres major improvements coming soon.
Let’s hope so. Perhaps we all need to feed that back to the companies on their website?
 

dunwater

Well-Known Member
Let’s hope so. Perhaps we all need to feed that back to the companies on their website?
I think we’ll see major developments if the IOC for example mandates non lead ammunition for competition, other than that competitors from UK/EU are going to be using non lead at home and lead elsewhere, and currently theres no doubt that the lead ammo is better by far, particularly at longer distances outdoors.
 

enfieldspares

Well-Known Member
I tried a few rounds non lead through the .22 and they were truly abysmal, but I don’t know whether that’s an intrinsic problem due incompatibility with rifling and twist or down to quality control issues, hopefully its the latter, in which case theres major improvements coming soon.
I think it's incompatibility with rifling. Now it may be that air weapons might have to go down the route of polygon rifling like was used by Heckler and Koch on some pistols? Rifling does "evolve" in that we no longer use Metford style rifling in rifles since smokeless powder and jacketed bullets but used Enfield style rifling. And yes maybe twist rates need revising? For certain I can remember the old plastic skirt non-lead (copper or steel) Prometheus pellets that didn't group either. Let us hope that BASC is doing tests! They are "the authoritative voice of shooting"!
 

enfieldspares

Well-Known Member
I think we’ll see major developments if the IOC for example mandates non lead ammunition for competition, other than that competitors from UK/EU are going to be using non lead at home and lead elsewhere, and currently theres no doubt that the lead ammo is better by far, particularly at longer distances outdoors.
Like the "two tier" LMG competitions where eventually the British Army had to ban the use of the 7.62mm BREN as "tail" units that still had the Bren were actually scoring better that units equipped with only the GPMG. So from whatever year it was even if your unit still had the Bren issued you had to use the GPMG.
 

MW73

Well-Known Member
This topic is on a couple of forums that I'm a member of, and truth be told, I personally think that this proposed ban is just a back door to remove thousands of firearms out of the population and the so called "green policy" is runner up to the proposal.

I remember watching a Chris Rock stand up show years ago and remember him using a joke in his performance which in a nutshell was, if you make the ammo as expensive as possible then you'll see am instant drop in shootings as no one would be able to afford bullets which in turn would have a positive impact on gun crime.

In this scenario, they ban lead as "it's good for the environment and eco system" whilst removing firearms from the hands of thousands of owners.

Skeptical maybe but I wonder if that's the silver lining in their proposal?
 

Liveonce

Well-Known Member
Skeptical maybe but I wonder if that's the silver lining in their proposal?

May not be the goal of the HSE but like you say would be surprised if it will not be seen as that by the police and Home Office.
 
Last edited:

Old Pultney

Well-Known Member
I agree that BASC has been abysmal and that the lead ban is going to happen .

Nonetheless will hope to present my case positively to the HSE for exemptions for pest control calibres on their consultation. It may have no affect whatsoever but it feels like I’m doing something. Similarly my MP is as effective as a motor cycle ash tray but will write.
 

kes

Well-Known Member
Not quite sure what this means apart from washing your hands of the whole thing and giving into the masses?

Some might say from this decision a great religion was created which had brought great support and happiness (and wars) to many people.
The first was the intent and the second surely had something to do with the guy who got crucified and what he did, what the churches then did and not forgetting the disciples.
Pontius Pilate only washed his hands because he couldnt find an acceptable solution in the circumstances or couldnt be ****D - although in fairness he didnt actually create the circumstances. I find your interpretation falls short of your usually thoughtful comments but ------

One pays ones money and takes your choice - literally.
 
Top