lease holders and stupid rules

[Stevie/P]

so you've joined a syndicate paid you're money you have all the necessary documents to stalk ie dsc1 dsc 2 insures first aid at work and all the other bumf that goes with it. 3000 hector of land to stalk so why do they insist you book a date to stalk. why not just turn up and stalk you've paid for the privileged. providing you let the lease holder know you're on the ground. if you have all the above you know what you are doing. but no A wants this week end and B wants the other week and you never know who the other members are. so why do so meany people bother for the sake of a bit of land that has limited access. so if you get a offer of a place with no rules that's the one to join.

 

[finnbear270]

Initially booking on gives some measure of safety, over this, the leaseholder can operate a certain amount of certainty in covering the ground, beyond that if they are of uncertain honesty, the ground can provide more financial gain.

 

[SimpleSimon]

I don't see the problem if it was explained before joining that that was the way they operate.
Aside from the points already raised, it allows the leaseholder to see who's pulling their weight if there are cull targets involved, vs who's not really bothered about playing a part and just turns up looking for a nice head once in a while. Also if any members are misbehaving or causing/experiencing trouble it gives him an idea of who it is, or isn't.

 

[davidm]

Easy solution ask the question before you pay your money.
I don’t mind logging on but I would never join a syndicate I had to pre book wouldn’t trust it leaves to much room for fraud. to many members and never knowing who the lease holder has on the ground.unless it’s an open online system where everyone can see who’s going when.

 

[Kalahari]

As long as the rules and all the rules are there in black and white before you sign on that is fine. Upfront clarity in all these things is pretty well essential in my opinion.

David.

 

[finnbear270]

Our bit of ground is governed by this system, it gives the people who run it peace of mind, ..... and as a member of the group who puts unpaid time into it’s governance is a serving wildlife crime prevention officer, I would completely rule out the fraudulent pitch on things, this system gives those on the ground the added protection of knowing that they are the only people that should be there carrying arms.

 

[EMcC]

This is a tricky one for me.
I was a member of a syndicate but was only allowed to join if I wasn't going to be one of those that chose only to come and shoot a trophy now and again.
The lease holder was a game dealer so he wanted regulars to put meat through the larder.
We also had a range that was used by one of the members running courses and didn't always leave it as it was found.
I was allowed to join on the proviso I wasn't just a trophy hunter and that, as I lived local, keep an eye on the range, change target board and tidy up when required.
Now comes the crunch.
When the lease came up for renewal one of the members paid more money to the landowner and took on the lease.
I asked if I could continues as a member but was told "no you have had your money's worth"
I presume he based saying that on the fact I booked on the area almost once a week but he didn't know about my tidying up and high seat maintenance.
So if you are just booking on and all members can see it then you aught to have a meeting now and again to air any perceived grievances before it is too late.

 

[75]

I have no issue "booking" onto ground on a syndicate, however, it wouldn't work for me if I had to book weeks / months in advance. I'm happy to give a few days notice and if someone is already booked then that's fine - I'll go another time. I'd also like a bit of flexibility / common sense - if it's a big enough area then no reason 2 folk can't be out on the ground at the same time, providing each knows where the other is.

The thing that made me give up my last syndicate place was the lack of transparency - not knowing who was in the syndicate, when the ground was last stalked or how often the bloke running the syndicate was taking out additional paying guests etc. Nothing worst than wasting your time stalking a wood that was disturbed the night before and couple of deer shot from there.

I've been looking for some ground to set up a syndicate of my own for some time now as I want to run it totally transparently. Online spreadsheet on Google docs or somewhere that folk use to log their time on the ground and their cull reports. So simple to do these days and gives everyone visibility of who is out when, what is shot and from which part of the ground. Only hard bit is finding the ground

 

[jcampbellsmith]

Easy solution ask the question before you pay your money.
I don’t mind logging on but I would never join a syndicate I had to pre book wouldn’t trust it leaves to much room for fraud. to many members and never knowing who the lease holder has on the ground.unless it’s an open online system where everyone can see who’s going when.

I am involved in a number of syndicates and the rules include –
Each member has the contact details for all the other syndicate members.
Everyone sees the rent invoice.
All outings are pre-booked – currently members favour sending text messages to book.
All culls and corresponding grid refs are reported.
All the members meet up from time to time.
There’s a digital map available of the ground.
Regards
JCS

 

[kenbro]

Easy solution ask the question before you pay your money.
I don’t mind logging on but I would never join a syndicate I had to pre book wouldn’t trust it leaves to much room for fraud. to many members and never knowing who the lease holder has on the ground.unless it’s an open online system where everyone can see who’s going when.

Exactly. I know people that had exclusive stalking, but had to inform renter when they would be there.
They went unannounced one time and met other stalkers who had exclusive shooting rights.
Rotten apples anywhere money’s involved.
Ken.

 

[Stevie/P]

Exactly. I know people that had exclusive stalking, but had to inform renter when they would be there.
They went unannounced one time and met other stalkers who had exclusive shooting rights.
Rotten apples anywhere money’s involved.
Ken.

this is so true ken happens all the time ££££ takes over it's such a shame. i've been on two leases in the past that were great one was rivox open access just let the ranger know when on and leaving. trouble is £££ got the better of the lease holder. i'm considering packing it all in fed up with the under handed goings on.

 

[N.F.W.M]

This is a tricky one for me.
I was a member of a syndicate but was only allowed to join if I wasn't going to be one of those that chose only to come and shoot a trophy now and again.
The lease holder was a game dealer so he wanted regulars to put meat through the larder.
We also had a range that was used by one of the members running courses and didn't always leave it as it was found.
I was allowed to join on the proviso I wasn't just a trophy hunter and that, as I lived local, keep an eye on the range, change target board and tidy up when required.
Now comes the crunch.
When the lease came up for renewal one of the members paid more money to the landowner and took on the lease.
I asked if I could continues as a member but was told "no you have had your money's worth"
I presume he based saying that on the fact I booked on the area almost once a week but he didn't know about my tidying up and high seat maintenance.
So if you are just booking on and all members can see it then you aught to have a meeting now and again to air any perceived grievances before it is too late.

Ed,
I believe you and I were members on the same syndicate. The last lease holder well and truly took the **** out of you and many others, 38 members on 1000 acres turned out to be very dangerous. I would not discredit you by telling you of the nickname you had been given by the lease holder. There was absolutely no way that the then lease holder would have signed a new lease, there had been as irreversible breakdown in the relationship. There was plenty going on that you knew little about. I bid strong money on the lease, very strong money, even went as far as being invited to meet with the elderly owners. I was not successful because I did not come from the right background, or work in the city. The conditions put on the new lease holder were not easy for him to operate under. And I believe the lease is shortly about to be marketed again.

I am now currently on a lease of 17500 acres where the estate employs a Deer Manager. A syndicate members we can stalk 365 days a year and the syndicate is small enough and the estate large enough that we could all be out on the same day without any dramas. I phone the Deer Manager for one of two reasons; either for me to ask 'can I go to such a place as Ive seen a meddle buck I would like on my wall, or as I tend to I call him and ask where he needs me to be, as in where is my is my skill best put to use, forestry and agriculture wise. I have no issue in using a booking in system, The syndicate has a contract but apart from that I can can phone the lease holder, and get an honest reply to any question I may have.

Regards Ed

 

[EMcC]

Well that is interesting, I didn't know I had a nickname but I knew I pulled my weight as a one man working party !

 

[Cut+Squirt]

I'm in the lucky position whereby I have zero involvement in syndicates any more, either as a lease holder or indeed a syndicate member. They are quite frankly a pain in the ass on every level.

And yes I agree with the poster, some of the rules I've heard of are rules for the sake of rules.

 

[Cut+Squirt]

Ed,
I believe you and I were members on the same syndicate. The last lease holder well and truly took the **** out of you and many others, 38 members on 1000 acres turned out to be very dangerous. I would not discredit you by telling you of the nickname you had been given by the lease holder. There was absolutely no way that the then lease holder would have signed a new lease, there had been as irreversible breakdown in the relationship. There was plenty going on that you knew little about. I bid strong money on the lease, very strong money, even went as far as being invited to meet with the elderly owners. I was not successful because I did not come from the right background, or work in the city. The conditions put on the new lease holder were not easy for him to operate under. And I believe the lease is shortly about to be marketed again.

I am now currently on a lease of 17500 acres where the estate employs a Deer Manager. A syndicate members we can stalk 365 days a year and the syndicate is small enough and the estate large enough that we could all be out on the same day without any dramas. I phone the Deer Manager for one of two reasons; either for me to ask 'can I go to such a place as Ive seen a meddle buck I would like on my wall, or as I tend to I call him and ask where he needs me to be, as in where is my is my skill best put to use, forestry and agriculture wise. I have no issue in using a booking in system, The syndicate has a contract but apart from that I can can phone the lease holder, and get an honest reply to any question I may have.

Regards Ed

You can't possibly write that then not tell us what the nick-name was ha!

 

[Chasey]

so you've joined a syndicate paid you're money you have all the necessary documents to stalk ie dsc1 dsc 2 insures first aid at work and all the other bumf that goes with it. 3000 hector of land to stalk so why do they insist you book a date to stalk. why not just turn up and stalk you've paid for the privileged. providing you let the lease holder know you're on the ground. if you have all the above you know what you are doing. but no A wants this week end and B wants the other week and you never know who the other members are. so why do so meany people bother for the sake of a bit of land that has limited access. so if you get a offer of a place with no rules that's the one to join.

Cant believe your realy asking this question?

1: Need to inform the land owner in advance. One land owner I deal with wants a list of days not less than 1 month in advance. The land has other users aside from deer stalking so we need to coordinate around this as well

2: Need to coordinate other member in terms of where and when they can shoot

3: Need to know for security reasons

4: Need to plan the cull so may restrict number of days and dates


Personally, seeing as i run a syndicate and manage 5 areas of land for shooting. Id say if you find a syndicate with no rules, avoid it like the plague as its not run properly and is likely to end in tears

 

[Chasey]

As long as the rules and all the rules are there in black and white before you sign on that is fine. Upfront clarity in all these things is pretty well essential in my opinion.

David.

We have a written set of rules every member has to read and sign, a spread sheet showing who's shooting where and when and a members list with contact numbers so people shooting on the same days can contact each other

There's also a spread sheet showing expenditure and who's paid what

I also insist all member have matching radios on the same chanell so they can contact each other on the day.

ATB

 

[EMcC]

You can't possibly write that then not tell us what the nick-name was ha!

I was called a few names during my Army service but always behind my back

 

[Noah]

Our bit of ground is governed by this system, it gives the people who run it peace of mind, ..... and as a member of the group who puts unpaid time into it’s governance is a serving wildlife crime prevention officer, I would completely rule out the fraudulent pitch on things, this system gives those on the ground the added protection of knowing that they are the only people that should be there carrying arms.

I'm in the same syndicate, when you book your stalking it is confirmed by Email with an attachment to be printed out. This has the date of your stalk and acts as permit should you be challenged, it also has a dated vehicle parking pass to be displayed so that anyone knows you are there "officially" and not an "uninvited guest".

 

[Tartan_Terrier]

Not quite the same, but in my (small) syndicate, we ask that members announce when they are on the ground, and what they're doing. If anyone is planning on duck flighting, or pigeon shooting though, we ask that they invite the other members (not everyone has a dog, and dogs are a legal requirement for shotgun hunting in Denmark).