Leave the bucks for now??

[basil]

Am i right in this way of thinking? I`ve not got a mass of acres to shoot on and with the two bucks on monday, i think it`s a good time to not shoot any for a while. October 31 is a long way off and my thinking is to leave the bucks to their shagging for now, i can always bag a few later on.
This would still allow me to practise calling them (which i`ve never done before) I can still learn without having the rifle in my hands.
What are your opions please.
basil.

 

[Xim]

Hi basil

i'm no expert but from what i have heard from very experianced deer stalkers is that the Does will call more bucks into their teritory. It makes sense to me.

i must admit in the past i have had the same feelings towards the bucks where i shoot.

However i have also heard that shooting the main Alpha Dog buck is also a bad thing because there is a possibility for the Does to all get upset and possibly move to another area.

2 conflicting ideas from different people but i am always learning myself and will probably stand corrected after some more ppl post.

 

[stone]

hi basil
this next 4weeks approx should be the best time to get to grips with any of those old and difficult bucks you may or may not of seen that probaly may fit into a cull plan that you are thinking about setting up
this time of year they only hav one thing on their mind
and if you were to leave some of these old or lesser quality bucks on the ground then your breeding plan for better quality beasts will be delayed a year or so
my advice is to keep stalking and shooting any old and going back bucks aswell as yearlings and bucks upto 4 points unless they look a lot better than the ones you culled in your article
as the bucks are coming in for the females and after the rut most of them will leave any way ,you won't hav many more bucks to stalk after than you had before the rut
so to stop stalking now only means you miss out on one of the most exciting parts of stalking there is
i would not recommend using a roe call untill bucks are in the swing a bit more and only use it occassionaly ,only if you are intending to shoot the buck you hav called because you won't get a second chance at a later date if you use it just to practise with and roe soon get to learn to ignore or run from the call if over used
roe does are also promiscous ( spelling ) so they often mate with several bucks anyway to greaten thier chances of successfull breeding , so if you do shoot the dominant buck she may well move of to find another buck to mate with , but will soon be back often with a buck following
this is what i hav found with the roe on my ground
hope this helps
stone

 

[basil]

Thanks stone, a very usefull reply.
basil.

 

[stag1933]

I seem to recall that in Southern Sweden the Buck season started on AUGUST 12th.
This ensured that the best and heaviest bucks sorted out the Does.
Here many fine beasts are shot before they have had a chance to sow their superior seed.
Generally the Roe there are vastly superior to ours so mother nature knows best.

HWH.

 

[wadashot]

I have to agree with stone here. keep shooting your bucks because the territorial does on your ground will go off and fetch another buck from eleswhere while ever you keep shooting them. Not only that, after the rut the bucks lay up and seem to disappear for quite a while so you might as well may hay while the sun shines

Good luck basil

wadas

 

[Davie]

I is important to me to leave the best bucks and if he is holding a territory over a couple of does i leave him be but will still go out shooting and any i find that will challenge him or just **** him off will be removed .Their should be plenty to shoot but if you value your stock and know what a good animal is i would leave him be.
The type of ground you have and your plan for the future is important as i know some people will shoot everything on site and i have had ground like this Scotishwoodland and FC Ground. But i must admit there was not much chance of quality deer on that ground.
There are very good ways to improve your stock and holding capacity and still shoot plenty of deer just ask what do you want from the ground.

 

[stone]

6.5x55
why do you remove any buck that presents a challenge
as that buck may not win that paticular one but could win a challenge over an older or less suitable buck in the next territory, which could be better off out of the gene pool, so increasing chances of better quality genes passed on through out the area
things are not as clear as what you seem to make it
perhaps a little more detail on your management plan is needed here

 

[stone]

I seem to recall that in Southern Sweden the Buck season started on AUGUST 12th.
This ensured that the best and heaviest bucks sorted out the Does.
Here many fine beasts are shot before they have had a chance to sow their superior seed.
Generally the Roe there are vastly superior to ours so mother nature knows best.

HWH.

stagg
i hav been thinking about this all evening , and there seems a lot of credibility in what you are saying,
is it more to do with the sweedish goverment own the all the hunting rights so a sweedish hunter has to pass a lot more compentcy tests before he or she is allowed to hunt, so that way they have a better management plan already in place
than what is happening in this country
as over here the local land owner can get a rifle for crop protection and shoot on site with out any proper training and we hav a lot more amatuer deer stalkers (myself included) who are involed more in controll than trophys, so thier management plan would be different, to say, an outfitter who wants more trophys as they pay the biggest part of the bill
but a very good point raised , never realy looked at it this way,
thanks stagg puts a new prospective into veiw

 

[Davie]

Stone i have been on my ground watching the deer and paying particular attention to actions of the larger bucks well before buck season in April.
I have shot most of my cull plan and have a couple more i would like to take for my own pleasures before i finish my season at the end of the rut.
Now i have got my eyes on a few real nice beasts that IMO should be the lads that cover the does they are prime specimens and have been holding there own territories with out fuss.
Now if i shoot them and wait for the doe to bring in a new buck and continue to do this i would be defeating the object of deer management and would just be shooting sorry wadashot your theory while correct dose not hold any water when trying to improve the deer on the ground.That type of deerstalking/shooting i would think better to suited to the brown its down brigade eg forestry groups and there stalkers.
I could go on about the lesser bucks coming over the boundaries and braking the harmony and a chance that the big lads might well evict them but pay the price of a mortal wounding.
Or that while the big lads are chasing and fighting each other a scabby yearling gets his end away and the gene pool is then lessened. While i do wounder what is happening over the boundaries i have no way of effecting my cull plan there so i stick to my own ground and the quality it has.
Luckily roe deer are territorial and will stay put as long as they have the three main ingredients.

There is alot more to my cull plan but its nice to keep things simple and alot on here dont want to manage deer at all its about the stalking for them or the venison so why waist space.

 

[Andy L]

There is alot more to my cull plan but its nice to keep things simple and alot on here dont want to manage deer at all its about the stalking for them or the venison so why waist space.

Well 6.5 x 55, your post has proper annoyed me! If you have this attitude to the majority on this site then why bother posting at all. It does seem a shame to waste space!
I, for one, would love to be in your position where it is possible to manage a population of Roe. Unfortunately, this is not the case and most of the beasts on the land I have are fallow and pass through like the wind. Of the few roe that I do have, I leave all does unless the farmer gives me too much of an ear full (I took 1 last year) and have so far taken all of the bucks that I have seen as they have not been the best quality and I hope to pull something better from neighbouring ground. If something better does turn up then I will leave it (farmer permitting!).
But then, I am obviously only interested in the stalking and venison and it is definitely not worth wasting the space on me or others!

 

[stone]

There is alot more to my cull plan but its nice to keep things simple and alot on here dont want to manage deer at all its about the stalking for them or the venison so why waist space.

how can any one learn, if we are not prepared to teach
you may find those 'that don't want to manage' as you put it, may not hav the ground or stalking available like yourself , so all they can do is buy stalking or get invites, but this is expensive and invites are few and far between
So the venison from such successful outings are truly relished.
The stalker , they go out with, will be doing his own management plan of which they are a part of,
maybe one day some of the members on this site will get thier own ground and then hopefully put a management plan in place
so posting a plan already in action only leads to further knowledge gained
which is never a waste of space
well not in my eyes it ain't

 

[Davie]

Andy L This was not a dig and i have and still got ground were i need to shoot everything on site.I wish you well in collecting ground you can truly manage on your own .It took me a long time and a lot of hard work to get the ground i stalk on. My management plan will be of little use to others as what i expect from my ground will be different to others. Also the type of ground i have and its position has a large effect on its holding capacity.
But if any one wants any help with anything that i can help with i am always only to willing to oblige.
Stone you asked me questions of which i answered but only reply quoting the sections that you feel will be controversial.
Now i have given the reason why my master bucks do not get shot and as the results over the last few years have shown me to be doing something correct .
With regards this post as we are moving away from the point and that was do you leave the bucks to settle or not .In my opinion there is nothing wrong with being out on the ground and seeing if there is a cull beast or anything else to deal with as this time of year brings about a lot of change. but for me its leave your chosen master bucks alone

 

[stone]

6.5x55
yes
i asked you several questions about your methods , because i was interested in how you managed the roe on your ground and why you used these methods
as this is the way you manage your ground and i manage my in my way as others manage their way , basil asked a question of which he now has answers from which he can choose , that may suit his way of stalking
the reason why i quoted on this::
"6.5 x 55 wrote:
There is alot more to my cull plan but its nice to keep things simple and alot on here dont want to manage deer at all its about the stalking for them or the venison so why waist space. "

as it saddened me to see you hav such comments and think so badly of many on this site
alot of members hav helped me in the past as i hav done for them , which i hope will carry on well into the future, is that not why we are on here
Basil , Andy, myself and others may be able to look and learn something new from your cull plan , in regards to when ,why and what we could be leaving or culling and for what purposes , this may help to improve our own cull plan or for when a plan is being put together in the future like what basil is try to sort now
yes it may be going off the initial question but leading into something better that could be a lot more useful for all of us
surely you must see now, that it is not such a waste of time after all
nothing controversial just trying to learn that's all and trying to help others in the process ,

 

[Davie]

Stone don't feel so sad it worries me Like i said i do not think bad of anyone on the site but i do feel your digging a hole for your own enjoyment .While your answer was excepted by Basil as a good answer i assumed he had decided this was the way for him to go. I don't now his circumstances or the way he has his set up organised nor do i know about ANDY L situation but he got upset saying he cannot control the deer the way he wants. I now know he is under instructions from other people which will change a cull plan totally but until the comments come out you can only reply to what you know not what you think you know.( i am not a mind reader) So while you seem to take things personally i will ask you to pm me your full details regarding your ground the deer on it and a few maps and maybe a walk round a few times and then i will do my best to help you sort out some new approaches.
With regards helping others this season alone i have taken 4 new lads out and carried out 6 CW stalks for lads off the Internet who were struggling to get there lev 2 done before the fc shut shop. i never took a Pennie and used my own ground now that's what its about.

 

[Jagare]

The roe season in the whole of Sweden starts this year on the 16th August. This is only for bucks and you can only use a rifle. There is a limited buck season in the spring in those areas of Sweden affected by the fallout from Chernobyl.
The season for all roe starts on the 1st October when we hunt roe with dogs and you can shoot them with either rifle or shotgun.

The areas that produce the very good medal heads are the more agriculteral areas in the south and around Stockholm. In these areas they have large estates where very good deer managment is done.

I live in a zone 5 area ( 7 zones 1 is the warmest 7 the coldest ) that while in southern Sweden is a cold area of mainly pine forest. The roe here don't grow good heads and no cull plan will make them better.

So my cull plan for this year is to shoot 2-3 bucks for the freezer. On the 1st Oct i will loose the dog for a fun filled season of roe hunting.

I think that many people who have Woodland stalking in England are well meaning in there cull plans but unless you have all your stalking neighbours over a large area singing from the same hymn sheet you are wasting your time.

Lets be honest there is not one person on this forum who has any true idea how many roe deer they have on there ground.