Lee Enfield Deer Stalking - No4 Mk2 vs No5 Mk1

Leica Amplus 6

East Coast Lifeboat

Well-Known Member
Good Afternoon All,
Im very much the Lee Enfield Rifle nerd.... I have a couple of No4 Mk2 rifles (one of which is unfired with cosmo in action) and a No5 Mk1 aka the Jungle carbine. I am considering setting up a LE for woodland stalking in East Anglia where I live. I can shoot both rifles well over irons out to 100 meters and if I added a scope via a non drill Fultons scope mount I am very confident I can achieve required levels of accuracy for deer management out to 150 meters. Q: Which of the rifles would be your choice and why. The lighter and shorter No5 Mk1 or the heavier and better triggered No4 Mk2?
 

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Koenig

Well-Known Member
Bloke I used to know, called his No5 “The Bitch” he reckoned it was just unpleasant to either fire or be around when fired. That said, it’s not as if you’ll be putting many rounds through it when stalking.
 

East Coast Lifeboat

Well-Known Member
Bloke I used to know, called his No5 “The Bitch” he reckoned it was just unpleasant to either fire or be around when fired. That said, it’s not as if you’ll be putting many rounds through it when stalking.
I think a lot of shooters are of the same opinion regarding the No5. That said I have personally never really felt that the No5 is the monster to shoot that the internet would have you believe. Yes, it recoils more than a No4 but it is by no means unmanageable.
 

East Coast Lifeboat

Well-Known Member
I wonder whether the No5 rifle is the archetype which spawned of the alleged 'UK fetish for short barrels'?

If so, it has much to answer for!
The MOD quickly realised that the No5 with a shorter barrel (and other weight savings) was not the optimum design for a LE .303 rifle. With the later produced No4 Mk 2 the design returned to the full size rifle stocked in the heavy beech furniture resulting in a extremely accurate rifle.
 

East Coast Lifeboat

Well-Known Member
just taken a few of these in and we were discussing the merits of shooting then in the field!!

very tempting!
As with a LE rifles, the youngest of which are now 60 + years old. The condition of the barrels is what governs weather they are going to be any good. You only need look at the tables at Bisley during a meet and see the pristine looking but shot out guns for sale. Buyer beware! Im fortunate that both of my No4 Mk2s were unissued when I acquired them. My shooter No4 Mk2 arrived to me in the below dirty cosmo condition but unfired and the other was in the original factory paper/cosmo.
 

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Fosbery Holster

Well-Known Member
The MOD quickly realised that the No5 with a shorter barrel (and other weight savings) was not the optimum design for a LE .303 rifle. With the later produced No4 Mk 2 the design returned to the full size rifle stocked in the heavy beech furniture resulting in a extremely accurate rifle.

With regards to the choice of the No4 or No5 for stalking you’ve just answered your own question.
 

alberta boy

Well-Known Member
I use both , as well as a few Parker Hale No4 Mrk2 based sporters . I don't find the No5 recoils that badly , I have other rifles like a 7.5 pound 338WM that do get your attention . I generally use the No5 as a thick cover rifle and for just walking around in the bush when fishing , berry picking ( bears like berries too ) or camping . It works perfectly as issued for the above purposes .
I use my No4's ( scoped ) for everything else ( including Moose , Elk , etc. ) out to about 200 yards . When it comes to actually taking game , there isn't much difference between them . My scoped rifles just make it easier to shoot accurately at longer distances . A scoped No4 is a bit heavy , which is why I use my PH sporters . They fit me perfectly and with scope , ammo and sling , weigh just over 8 pounds . One thing they all share is reliability , I've never had one , and I've had a lot , let me down in the field , extremely durable rifles .
I'm a bit of a LE freak myself , Muir is worse lol , and share your enthusiasm . I have an unfired Irish contract Mark 2 like yours as well ( still in the original wrap ) , they are rapidly going up in value . Your rifles are in excellent shape by the looks of them . If I could make a suggestion , I would pick up a sporter stock and install it on the rifle you end up using . It only takes a few minutes to switch them , they're easy to bed if necessary , they'll probably fit you better making them easier to shoot accurately and it will preserve the value of your rifles .
I understand the urge to hunt with them as issued though . We have an annual milsurp hunt out here every year with a bunch of friends and family . You can use whatever you want , as long as it's issue . Everything from Martini's and Lee Enfields to Tokarev SVT's and Walther G-43's ( they all work very well by the way ) . For the most part I carry a Longbranch No4 Mrk1* or my beat up old Jungle . It's good to see people on your side of the pond still using them , they have a cult following here . HarryMac on here is a long time No5 user , and a good guy , you should drop him a line , he knows what he's talking about .

AB
 

East Coast Lifeboat

Well-Known Member
I use both , as well as a few Parker Hale No4 Mrk2 based sporters . I don't find the No5 recoils that badly , I have other rifles like a 7.5 pound 338WM that do get your attention . I generally use the No5 as a thick cover rifle and for just walking around in the bush when fishing , berry picking ( bears like berries too ) or camping . It works perfectly as issued for the above purposes .
I use my No4's ( scoped ) for everything else ( including Moose , Elk , etc. ) out to about 200 yards . When it comes to actually taking game , there isn't much difference between them . My scoped rifles just make it easier to shoot accurately at longer distances . A scoped No4 is a bit heavy , which is why I use my PH sporters . They fit me perfectly and with scope , ammo and sling , weigh just over 8 pounds . One thing they all share is reliability , I've never had one , and I've had a lot , let me down in the field , extremely durable rifles .
I'm a bit of a LE freak myself , Muir is worse lol , and share your enthusiasm . I have an unfired Irish contract Mark 2 like yours as well ( still in the original wrap ) , they are rapidly going up in value . Your rifles are in excellent shape by the looks of them . If I could make a suggestion , I would pick up a sporter stock and install it on the rifle you end up using . It only takes a few minutes to switch them , they're easy to bed if necessary , they'll probably fit you better making them easier to shoot accurately and it will preserve the value of your rifles .
I understand the urge to hunt with them as issued though . We have an annual milsurp hunt out here every year with a bunch of friends and family . You can use whatever you want , as long as it's issue . Everything from Martini's and Lee Enfields to Tokarev SVT's and Walther G-43's ( they all work very well by the way ) . For the most part I carry a Longbranch No4 Mrk1* or my beat up old Jungle . It's good to see people on your side of the pond still using them , they have a cult following here . HarryMac on here is a long time No5 user , and a good guy , you should drop him a line , he knows what he's talking about .

AB
Once I get a idea in my head... It will take a lot of time down the rabbit hole to resolve. I work at sea and often have time on my hands. I read the below article a few months ago and the idea of stalking with a LE rifle has been firmly in my sights ever since. I had three LE before I read the article and have since bought a original LONG butt and a reproduction cheek riser. I am looking for the right scope (possible a S&B fixed 12x50 Klassic) and will use a Fultons no drill mount. Finding non FMJ ammunition is tasking but I think I have a source located for suitable SP factory loads..... Like I said im down the rabbit hole and will only come up for air when I have stalked successfully with a LE!
 

Fosbery Holster

Well-Known Member
Good Afternoon All,
Im very much the Lee Enfield Rifle nerd.... I have a couple of No4 Mk2 rifles (one of which is unfired with cosmo in action) and a No5 Mk1 aka the Jungle carbine. I am considering setting up a LE for woodland stalking in East Anglia where I live. I can shoot both rifles well over irons out to 100 meters and if I added a scope via a non drill Fultons scope mount I am very confident I can achieve required levels of accuracy for deer management out to 150 meters. Q: Which of the rifles would be your choice and why. The lighter and shorter No5 Mk1 or the heavier and better triggered No4 Mk2?

In your photo with the Lee Enfield books is that a box of Greek HXP I spy.
 

alberta boy

Well-Known Member
Actually , HarryMac just posted pics of his No5 that has those exact mods done to it . I've found the standard No4 butt stocks far more comfortable to shoot than the No5 version , mostly because it has a larger surface that bears on your shoulder during recoil .
The No4 T cheek piece will make it a lot easier to get a decent cheek weld with and will help avoid getting slapped in the face every time you fire . I've done this modification a few times myself , it works really well , and looks cool as well lol . It's also a very easy change to make and won't alter your rifle , a good idea .
It's too bad that your firearms legislation doesn't allow shipping loaded ammo . We have about 10 different SP factory ammo brands available here . Like I said , the LE has a very large following in Canada , there's ammo for them everywhere . Welcome to the Rabbit Hole lol .

AB
 

alberta boy

Well-Known Member
I’ve still a few hundred left in the cabinet.
I burned off all of mine a while ago , good ammo . Hopefully the Canadian Government will release their stockpile of 303 ammo to the public now that the Rangers have retired their No4's .
I used to shoot a lot of it when I was a DCRA member . Unfortunately , in this era of virtue signaling and political correctness , it'll probably get scrapped .

AB
 

alberta boy

Well-Known Member
Once I get a idea in my head... It will take a lot of time down the rabbit hole to resolve. I work at sea and often have time on my hands. I read the below article a few months ago and the idea of stalking with a LE rifle has been firmly in my sights ever since. I had three LE before I read the article and have since bought a original LONG butt and a reproduction cheek riser. I am looking for the right scope (possible a S&B fixed 12x50 Klassic) and will use a Fultons no drill mount. Finding non FMJ ammunition is tasking but I think I have a source located for suitable SP factory loads..... Like I said im down the rabbit hole and will only come up for air when I have stalked successfully with a LE!

A really good article . One thing I don't agree with though is the thought that they should only be used under fair weather conditions . The reason I use LE's , Enfields and Mausers is that they work in very harsh conditions . I wouldn't take a pristine unaltered example hunting , but any of the above in decent shape or , more commonly , a sporterized version in otherwise really good shape , will get used hard , that's what they were designed for .

AB
 
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