Licence Revoked

[mjd237]

okay guys please bear with me as I try and fit all the facts into my post.
Four weeks ago I was assaulted by 7 lads requiring hospital treatment for various injuries to my face etc.
what happened was the lads was kicking a football around in the street at around 23.30hrs and the ball hit my car and when I heard the noise I looked out the window to see people in my garden and around my car,i went out to them and asked one what they was doing and in doing so grabbed one by the scruff of the neck thus resulting in myself getting a good kicking.
now for me grabbing the lad I received a caution for common assault.
now on to the letter from the Firearms Dept.
it states.
Information has been brought to my attention that gives me cause for concern in relation to your position as a cert holder etc.
it then goes on to say
"I must be satisfied that you can be permitted to possess a firearm without danger to public safety or to the peace.As yet iam not and iam minded to revoke your cert."
then goes on to say if you have any further information you would like me to consider or would like to arrange a meeting with me to discuss this please contact me etc.
if I do not hear from you by 22nd oct your cert will be revoked.
now I have a meeting with a Supt on the 7th nov.
now when the police came for the rifles they left me with both sound mods,expanding bullets and both rifle bolts!!
sorry for the long post but any advice would be greatly appreciated as iam totally stunned by events.
mjd237

 

[DJC]

okay guys please bear with me as I try and fit all the facts into my post.
Four weeks ago I was assaulted by 7 lads requiring hospital treatment for various injuries to my face etc.
what happened was the lads was kicking a football around in the street at around 23.30hrs and the ball hit my car and when I heard the noise I looked out the window to see people in my garden and around my car,i went out to them and asked one what they was doing and in doing so grabbed one by the scruff of the neck thus resulting in myself getting a good kicking.
now for me grabbing the lad I received a caution for common assault.
now on to the letter from the Firearms Dept.
it states.
Information has been brought to my attention that gives me cause for concern in relation to your position as a cert holder etc.
it then goes on to say
"I must be satisfied that you can be permitted to possess a firearm without danger to public safety or to the peace.As yet iam not and iam minded to revoke your cert."
then goes on to say if you have any further information you would like me to consider or would like to arrange a meeting with me to discuss this please contact me etc.
if I do not hear from you by 22nd oct your cert will be revoked.
now I have a meeting with a Supt on the 7th nov.
now when the police came for the rifles they left me with both sound mods,expanding bullets and both rifle bolts!!
sorry for the long post but any advice would be greatly appreciated as iam totally stunned by events.
mjd237

Try contact David at BASC see if they can help the law stinks in our country

 

[Jimnydriver]

Contact BASC or SACS or which ever you are a member of and use your legal advice there ..
The person you want to speak to is a lawyer.... and not listen to the barrack room lawyers on here....

 

[Tackleberry270]

okay guys please bear with me as I try and fit all the facts into my post.
Four weeks ago I was assaulted by 7 lads requiring hospital treatment for various injuries to my face etc.
what happened was the lads was kicking a football around in the street at around 23.30hrs and the ball hit my car and when I heard the noise I looked out the window to see people in my garden and around my car,i went out to them and asked one what they was doing and in doing so grabbed one by the scruff of the neck thus resulting in myself getting a good kicking.
now for me grabbing the lad I received a caution for common assault.
now on to the letter from the Firearms Dept.
it states.
Information has been brought to my attention that gives me cause for concern in relation to your position as a cert holder etc.
it then goes on to say
"I must be satisfied that you can be permitted to possess a firearm without danger to public safety or to the peace.As yet iam not and iam minded to revoke your cert."
then goes on to say if you have any further information you would like me to consider or would like to arrange a meeting with me to discuss this please contact me etc.
if I do not hear from you by 22nd oct your cert will be revoked.
now I have a meeting with a Supt on the 7th nov.
now when the police came for the rifles they left me with both sound mods,expanding bullets and both rifle bolts!!
sorry for the long post but any advice would be greatly appreciated as iam totally stunned by events.
mjd237

Contact/become member of Basc or hire someone that give you good legal advice. There are plenty of people on here qualified but you might not be able to distinguish them from other well meaning folk who may or may not give good advice.

 

[roedeerred]

you reallly must contact someone for good legal advice as has been said
I know someone who recieved a warning for being involved in a car accident
police seem hell bent on revoking certs at very least excuse
No offence to anyone on this site but dont be tempted listen to online experts:!:

 

[I. Farticus]

Admin - Please close this thread, as the best advice has already been given more than once, and it'll dissolve pretty quickly from here...

 

[mjd237]

Admin - Please close this thread, as the best advice has already been given more than once, and it'll dissolve pretty quickly from here...

Before I.Farticus gets his way i would like to thank all who posted replys even I.Farticus.
Mjd237

 

[Si]

Try contact David at BASC see if they can help the law stinks in our country

​doesn't it just!!!

​a bloke in Warrington got kicked to death for the very same thing a few years back

 

[exmarksman9870]

as i said mate BASC is the best bet....im pretty confident that all will be ok .....

 

[David63]

Please get in touch with me - my direct e-mail is david.ilsley@basc.org.uk, if you are a member I will make sure I / BASC will help all we can.


David

 

[Spix]

now for me grabbing the lad I received a caution for common assault.

I guess there's a world of difference between accepting a caution and not accepting one. Best of luck, S

 

[Kalahari]

Trouble is accepting a caution counts as a conviction. Never accept a caution if you hold firearms, always get legal advice. I am afraid the police offer it as if it is nothing, knowing full well that this is not at all true. They want a quick clear up and the brownie points and don't care about the truth or facts of the matter.

David.

 

[Oracle]

Trouble is accepting a caution counts as a conviction. Never accept a caution if you hold firearms, always get legal advice. I am afraid the police offer it as if it is nothing, knowing full well that this is not at all true. They want a quick clear up and the brownie points and don't care about the truth or facts of the matter.

David.

Sorry David but you’re statement is incorrect. I do not agree these are a quick fix with the prospect of any brownie points.
The formal caution has now been replaced by the simple caution. These are still a means of case disposal where the offence may not be of a serious nature or where there are no aggravating gravity factors, for example previous convictions/cautions, race/hate/domestic crime etc. All methods of case disposal must be considered by the Custody Officer/CPS prior to making any case disposal decision. Factors to be considered would include that there is sufficient evidence to meet the threshold test of a charge and the likelihood of securing a conviction should the matter go to Court, is the offender aware of what the caution means, do the circumstances of the case merit a simple caution. Most importantly the offender must accept having the caution administered and have admitted the offence by way of taped or contemporaneous interview, statement under caution etc, admissible under Police & Criminal Evidence Act
A simple caution is not a form of sentence nor is it a criminal conviction. It is, however an admission of guilt. A simple caution forms part of an offender’s criminal record and may influence how they are dealt with, should they come to the notice of the police again. The simple caution may also be cited in court in any subsequent proceedings, and can be quoted on a standard or enhanced disclosure issued by the Criminal Records Bureau.
It is far too easy to suggest an individual refuse to accept a caution when the alternative is likely to be charge, court appearance and the prospect of conviction. As has been said before, seek legal advice at the earliest opportunity during any proceedings.

​

 

[howy308]

Did any one else get injured in the fracas? Seems funny that someone ends up in hospital and gets charged!

 

[flytie]

MJD, if you are not a member of SAC's or BASC etc. etc. (and you should be if you shoot) then you could do worse than to contact David Crank http://www.dwf.co.uk/people/david-crank/ who specialises in license problems.

He helped me when I needed FAC advice and resolved the matter to my great satisfaction.

​Simon

 

[mjd237]

Did any one else get injured in the fracas? Seems funny that someone ends up in hospital and gets charged!

no one else was injured just me but the lad that I grabbed by the scruff of the neck had some marks!!!!!!!!!!!!!! supposedly.
email sent to David at BASC

 

[mjd237]

Please get in touch with me - my direct e-mail is david.ilsley@basc.org.uk, if you are a member I will make sure I / BASC will help all we can.


David

email sent.

 

[Taff]

oracle, I would say its the other way around, the duty Sargent would consider the possibility of a conviction/ court appearance , if there is little chance of it reaching court a caution would be offered as a way of getting a conviction/ brownie point, usually implying they are doing you a favour. although it is not as you say a conviction, it is recorded on your record and could come back to bite you on the arse when you least expect it. Most honest people just want to get out of the station ASAP and are far to trusting.

 

[pheasant sniper 1]

Admin - Please close this thread, as the best advice has already been given more than once, and it'll dissolve pretty quickly from here...

Just because you feel the best advice has been given is no good reason to close a thread others may not agree with you..

If everyone posted on a thread claiming that there would be no dialogue !!!

Mjd.. its possible as having grabbed the youth the police will view this may well have instigated the retaliation by friends who were all possibly upto no good or atleast causing damage to your property.

Keep calm and co-operate with the police, I lost my ticket and got it back, theyre not all out to get you mate.. good luck for a happy outcome

 

[widu13]

Sorry David but you’re statement is incorrect. I do not agree these are a quick fix with the prospect of any brownie points.
The formal caution has now been replaced by the simple caution. These are still a means of case disposal where the offence may not be of a serious nature or where there are no aggravating gravity factors, for example previous convictions/cautions, race/hate/domestic crime etc. All methods of case disposal must be considered by the Custody Officer/CPS prior to making any case disposal decision. Factors to be considered would include that there is sufficient evidence to meet the threshold test of a charge and the likelihood of securing a conviction should the matter go to Court, is the offender aware of what the caution means, do the circumstances of the case merit a simple caution. Most importantly the offender must accept having the caution administered and have admitted the offence by way of taped or contemporaneous interview, statement under caution etc, admissible under Police & Criminal Evidence Act
A simple caution is not a form of sentence nor is it a criminal conviction. It is, however an admission of guilt. A simple caution forms part of an offender’s criminal record and may influence how they are dealt with, should they come to the notice of the police again. The simple caution may also be cited in court in any subsequent proceedings, and can be quoted on a standard or enhanced disclosure issued by the Criminal Records Bureau.
It is far too easy to suggest an individual refuse to accept a caution when the alternative is likely to be charge, court appearance and the prospect of conviction. As has been said before, seek legal advice at the earliest opportunity during any proceedings.

​

I know exactly what the score is here. I was old bill for 22 yrs and 2.5 of those were as a custody sergeant. I left 22 months ago. Yes, often a caution is a legitimate offer and is often the best course of action for the detainee. I have seen legal advisors/solicitors offer poor advice to go "No Comment" in interviews when the suspect was eligible for a caution. Often the suspect is charged and again is often convicted, however I have also advised officers to offer cautions where there is no or little substantial evidence and I have often seen written advice from the CPS with the same instruction; often with a rationale that if the caution is refused or the offence denied then there will not be a Realistic Prospect of Conviction and that no further action should be taken.

It DOES happen but only in say 1 in 20 cases (where a caution is offered).

The facts of this case are:

A ball is kicked against a car
The owner confronts the groups and assaults (battery) one of the group (it seems without provocation)
A Caution is offered and accepted (Without knowing more this seems to be the correct course of action)
The cert is to be pulled but it appears that they are willing to listen to further evidence or circumstance)
Interview arranged with a senior police officer (a good thing)

Definitely get legal advice, but from my experience (I worked closely with my local firearms department) it seems that you have to throw yourself on your sword and be brutally honest. Gathering as many recommendations of character references with regards to your temper and temperament can only help.

I wish you luck.