License conditions - your assistance please

[SCB]

Hi to all,
So I’m going through renewal and adding deer calibres which has gone very well and all is agreed except….The condition to practice
It would seem Sussex licensing will only permit zeroing and not practice in addition to vermin and AOLQ, deer etc.

I discussed this in brief with the FEO on the phone and I advised I have read of several people having zeroing and practice on their tickets, (I didn’t recall at the time I had read it in the HO guidance) the FEO said he would ‘like to see this on a ticket’. I was surprised by this.

I questioned it the next day and was advised along the lines of ‘in issuing the calibres of rifle to you we deem/assume you are proficient in their use and apart from zeroing don’t need to practice’.

‘We don’t want you going to a range and firing 50 rounds’ or something to that effect.
So, does anyone have the zeroing-practice condition as listed in HO guidelines. Anyone in Sussex/Surrey which are now amalgamated? Would anyone be willing to PM me an image of the wording on their license (obviously with all photos and personal info covered up/obscured etc) so I can show the FEO as he had asked.
Maybe there is simply a blanket no practice approach in Sussex/Surrey hence why I am asking. It creates a grey area that I’d rather not have. He did advise he thought I could ask for exemptions on a particular day at a particular place which is good to know and a way round it to some extent but it just seems unnecessary.

Any advice gratefully received.

SCB

 

[OJL1991]

Just go out and ‘zero’. People do worry too much. Their not waiting in the bushes for you.

 

[Stalker1962]

It is semantics. Zeroing is "practice".

On my FAC the phrase they have used is "zeroing-practice".

 

[Andyquadra]

On my FAC the phrase they have used is "zeroing-practice".

same as mine

 

[MarkD123]

Mine cites “zeroing-practice”.
As the second poster says though, get on and do it, it’s zeroing.

 

[Swedish]

The most astonishing phrase is this one:
‘in issuing the calibres of rifle to you we deem/assume you are proficient in their use and apart from zeroing don’t need to practice’.

What a strange idea/attitude.

As others have said 'zeroing' will be fine. You could always consider a club for extra trigger time of course.

 

[enfieldspares]

The refusal is a total nonsense. I have often found it useful to practice as, where allowed, you can practice from sticks, from kneeling, from sitting (an most useful and overlooked position for when shooting downhill), as well as from prone. Why should you have to make a pretence of "zeroing" to do this when suitable wording would allow it?

 

[Oracle]

1. Quarry Shooting (for vermin, fox or deer)

• The *calibre RIFLE/COMBINATION/SMOOTH-BORE GUN/SOUND MODERATOR and ammunition shall be used for shooting vermin including fox, and ground game/ deer (delete as appropriate) and any other lawful quarry, and for zeroing-practice on ranges, on land deemed suitable by the chief officer of police for the area where the land is situated and over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot.

Standard condition that they should be adding as directed by NPCC FELWG clearly allows zeroing and practice.

All the FEO needs to do is look at the relevant condition in the Guidance and apply both the condition and some common sense.

 

[SCB]

Zeroing-practice is indeed how it’s written in HO guidelines but not how I believe my new ticket will come through. That’s what I can’t understand. Current ticket says zeroing. Like you say, zeroing is practice - to ensure your projectile meets the point of aim.
With everything else having gone well though perhaps I should wait until my new ticket comes through and see what it says rather than take it up again with the FEO.
Indeed I am looking for a club in Sussex to get centrefire trigger time.
thanks very much for the replies so far

 

[Stalker1962]

With everything else having gone well though perhaps I should wait until my new ticket comes through and see what it says.

This.

 

[Apthorpe]

My view on all these conditions are that they serve to establish the "good reason" for possessing the rifles.
A FAC provides full authority to use rifles subject to complying with any conditions. If the conditions say the rifles "shall be used for..." deer, vermin, whatever.... then make sure you use it for those purposes. Then do what you like within legal limits. If you want to shoot balloons, apples, squirrels, 100 rounds at paper then nothing prevents you. Except if your conditions say "shall only be used for...".
If the police wish to constrain shooters, then the English language provides many ways to explicitly and unambiguously do so. I know many policemen have an unusual relationship with the English language, but if they don't say explicitly that you can't do something, then you can do it.

 

[DeerSussex]

I’m in West Sussex. My ticket has a condition that all my rifles can be used for shooting on approved ranges whilst a member of the nra Bisley. As you already have the FAC you just need to get your membership & safe shooter card sorted. That could be a simple enough way to get what you’re after

 

[finnbear270]

When will they all get with the program?, We live in England and Wales, not Counties ( Read Fiefdoms).

 

[Richard Parsons]

Zero off sticks. Zero lying prone. Zero off your car bonnet. It's practice.

 

[Firefly]

The most astonishing phrase is this one:
‘in issuing the calibres of rifle to you we deem/assume you are proficient in their use and apart from zeroing don’t need to practice’.

What a strange idea/attitude.

As others have said 'zeroing' will be fine. You could always consider a club for extra trigger time of course.

One would assume then that police firearms officers don’t need to practice.

 

[VSS]

Hi to all,
So I’m going through renewal and adding deer calibres which has gone very well and all is agreed except….The condition to practice
It would seem Sussex licensing will only permit zeroing and not practice in addition to vermin and AOLQ, deer etc.

I discussed this in brief with the FEO on the phone and I advised I have read of several people having zeroing and practice on their tickets, (I didn’t recall at the time I had read it in the HO guidance) the FEO said he would ‘like to see this on a ticket’. I was surprised by this.

I questioned it the next day and was advised along the lines of ‘in issuing the calibres of rifle to you we deem/assume you are proficient in their use and apart from zeroing don’t need to practice’.

‘We don’t want you going to a range and firing 50 rounds’ or something to that effect.
So, does anyone have the zeroing-practice condition as listed in HO guidelines. Anyone in Sussex/Surrey which are now amalgamated? Would anyone be willing to PM me an image of the wording on their license (obviously with all photos and personal info covered up/obscured etc) so I can show the FEO as he had asked.
Maybe there is simply a blanket no practice approach in Sussex/Surrey hence why I am asking. It creates a grey area that I’d rather not have. He did advise he thought I could ask for exemptions on a particular day at a particular place which is good to know and a way round it to some extent but it just seems unnecessary.

Any advice gratefully received.

SCB

I think that you are inventing a non-existent problem.
Also, a "less is more" approach is always best when chatting with your FEO. If you'd said nowt about practice then it would probably never have come up in the conversation, and you wouldn't have given him the opportunity to spout all that nonsense.
All you need to provide is an initial good reason for a certain calibre. After that, crack on!

 

[Pete1774]

The most astonishing phrase is this one:
‘in issuing the calibres of rifle to you we deem/assume you are proficient in their use and apart from zeroing don’t need to practice’.

What a strange idea/attitude.

As others have said 'zeroing' will be fine. You could always consider a club for extra trigger time of course.

That's the sort of idiot thinking you get from a department that knows a lot about guns and absolutely nothing about shooting

 

[Archer]

Re #1 was MT the FEO 'cos that sounds like him

 

[gerarddwatts]

I think that you are inventing a non-existent problem.
Also, a "less is more" approach is always best when chatting with your FEO. If you'd said nowt about practice then it would probably never have come up in the conversation, and you wouldn't have given him the opportunity to spout all that nonsense.
All you need to provide is an initial good reason for a certain calibre. After that, crack on!

Nonsense. If its as reported, the FEO is creating a problem, and clearly doesn't know what he is talking about. This idiocy needs bringing to the attention of his supervisor in writing in order that the FEO is re-trained.....or indeed, trained.

 

[SCB]

One would assume then that police firearms officers don’t need to practice

I was thinking the very same thing