Lock Knife E Petition - THREAD FOR DISCUSSION POINTS

[Moray Outfitting]

Per this thread -

http://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk/showthread.php/66073-Lock-Knife-Legal-Carry-E-Petition

Which is purely for promotion of the E petition. Several people had comments/ points to make. That is what a forum is all about and no problem with that. But concerned that placing them on that petition thread would risk it losing momentum - or ( sorry have to say it ) things getting heated ./ closed as we all pitched in with our own version of a Mexican Knife ( Textual! ) and hence proving even tighter knife law to be required!

So can I ask you to place discussion/ comments here and if you feel able to support it then visit the other thread and follow the petition link.

I thank you.

Discussion posts brought over -


1.Wireless 23/6/13 05.15

The wife was a Scout Leader up until about 4 years ago, and the Scouts were legally allowed to carry a knife when using it for a task that required them, we always advised these lads, 10 and a half to 15 years old, that they should buy either a fixed blade in a sheaf or a lockable folding blade, we didn't allow folding blades that couldn't be locked as a Risk Assessment. On most occasions, they would bring them to camps with a backwoods element, or on a Troop Night if training in Knife, Axe, and Saw was published within the Programme. The knives were always in the Possession of the parents to and from the home to Scouting.

The blade had to be fit for purpose, and safe to use, the Scouts were normally handed the knife by the parents when they arrived, and had to hand them over to the Leaders on Arrival at Camp/Troop Night, when they would be stored in the Knife Bag until the training or work was to take place, and then handed back to the Leaders afterwards. Knifes were not allowed in the possession of Scouts Overnight in Tents, but on Overnight Patrol Camps they were held by a Senior Scout in a Knife Bag until needed. Years ago, these would have been worn on a Scout Belt at all times. Anyone found misusing knives was subject to sanctions agreed with parents, and might result in suspension. The knives were always handed over to the parents at the end of a camp/troop night.

We would show the Scouts the Relevant Laws regarding Knives, and they were all aware that it was a privilege of Scouting to use these as tools. The Scouts were more rigorous in preventing disrespect of this privilege by younger Scouts, because they knew that they could lose the privilege. I never saw a Scout who wasn't safe with knives, axes, or saws, they gave the tool the respect it deserved.

However, even though we were legitimately using them as a part of the Scout Association, and had a curriculum that included instructional training with knives, we were always worried about being responsible for a bag of 30 Knives (explain that one to an over zealous copper), and therefore a copy of the Legislation was always with them in the bag.

I would suggest that keeping a copy of the Legislation on your person, and observing similar caution regarding letting the public know you have them, but as a Deer Stalker I see no reason why you could be prosecuted for carrying a knife in the vehicle, even when rifles are safely away in the cabinet at home, since it is a tool for Humane Dispatch, obviously very much dependent on the situation.

As anyone that holds a DSC1 will know, you have a duty of care to relieve the suffering of any injured animals you might encounter at the roadside, if safe to do so, and as you'd not reasonably be carrying Firearms or Shotguns on coming across such a situation, unless called out by the Police or RSPCA, a knife in the glove box might be the only means to effectively follow legislation. You can't be arrested for being minimally prepared, surely?

Has there ever been any case of a Deer Stalker convicted or cautioned for carrying a knife? While Stalking or not Stalking?

I would suggest that an SGC/FAC Holder wouldn't likely be flagged up as a vehicle needing to be searched, since you're all Law Abiding Citizens, and therefore trusted, but there may still be a case or incident that I'm not aware of.


2. JOe-Bloggs 23/6/13 07.09

Doubt that I will sign.


If we had to carry a piece of paper for every poor bit of legislation...
I mean do we need to carry a bit of paper regarding transporting our firearms when we go out hunting? Or bringing a box of ammo home from the shop?

A 'knife in the glove box' commits the offence unless you are travelling to or from your hunting you will be in the do do.

Duty of care has been effectively transferred in law to the authorities as you cannot keep an outlawed blade in your car [a public place] so why worry? Let 'em deal with it.
You may find that plod and then the beak will not accept 'I had it in case I came across an injured deer' as good reason.
Remember even forgetting that you did not remove your knife from your car will not comply with good reason.

"Has there ever been any case of a Deer Stalker convicted or cautioned for carrying a knife? While Stalking or not Stalking?" - Irrelevant you are allowed a blade for use with hunting,
you have demonstrable 'good reason'.

You still may find that plod will confiscate your blade even while 'evidenced up' and that your bit of paper might only be of use if you need to take a dump and need something to clean up with.
Always remember the motto 'never interrupt a plod while he's making a mistake' be careful about waving a bit of paper in plods face - that may bite you more than you expect,
same goes for the 'shoe lace tying brigade' 30 blades in a bag with a bit of toilet paper for protection... A careful lucid explanation would suffice far better.

Your new long fac/sgc number will flag your vehicle as one likely to have firearms on board if they interrogate the PNC, hopefully they then will leave you alone.
Then again for the cynical amongst us - they know who to harrass...

As for the petition, like others it only identifies who 'objects' and achieves little, I would love it to actually do something but historically they are about as much
use as a fart in a bucket.
Time is better spent writing to your MP and even that is probably an exercise in futility especially if you have a lefty leaning tree-hugger commie pinko type of one.
The petition simply will not get the numbers to make it worthwhile - it's sad but true.

3. Eric Hamburger 23/6/13 09.10

Signed.

What I can't understand, for example, is that is legal in the UK to sell the Victorinox Rescue Tool, which includes a locking knife, but it not legal for the owner to carry it.


​

 

[Moray Outfitting]

Comment from Finnbear270 -

Current total................... 34, going to wither on the vine, signed it anyway, should be on the F.A.C.'s as a matter of course, (excellent suggestion from another member here)

 

[JabaliHunter]

I don't want knives on my FAC !! If I have reason for a knife on my FAC then I have good reason to carry it lawfully under the current legislation already.

​As for the petition, there is nothing that I would want to do with a locking blade that I couldn't do with a good quality folding blade and for everything else I would want a fixed blade anyway.... or an axe, saw, billhook, etc.... Trusting a locking blade is just the same as trusting a safety on a rifle - nothing in life is guaranteed...

 

[Apache]

I have to say I haven't signed the petition and in the way it is written it is pointless.

We have a big problem in this country with knife crime. Something major needs to be done to stop all these city kids stabbing each other. Legalising the carrying of lock knives will not solve anything.

As it stands you can carry a small folding knife on your person at pretty much any time you want with no reason. A Swiss army knife has done me well for many years for routine jobs.

I'd suggest the wording on the lines of:

"A knife with a fixed or locking blade greater than 75mm cannot be carried on a person in a public place without a good reason. Such a knife may be stored in a vehicle so long as it is not accessible immediately to any one of the vehicle's occupants."

It stops people carrying them in the street. It stops the drug dealer keeping it in the glovebox or under the seat 'in-case he comes across an injured deer in Camden' but allows any of us to have such an item in the boot of the car should we want to keep it there.

The law was not passed to **** us guys off, but it needs to remain to let the police deal with the idiots carrying blades for self defence.

 

[timbrayford]

Surely the idea of this knife law is so that people carrying them will be convicted, there is no restriction on supplying to adults.

To my mind it would be preferable to to apply "prohibited person" status to anyone with a history of violent or criminal offending instead. That way those who need to be convicted will be and stalkers, countrymen & tradesmen need have no fear of inadvertently breaking the law. atb Tim

 

[Taff]

The knife laws will not prevent one stabbing as will gun laws not prevent gun crime, the only people it will effect is the average citizen , who will obey the law, there was always a law in place, carrying a offensive weapon . Most slashings are carried out by stanley knife blades, under 3 inches, easy to drop.
the law was brought in so the police could say at least we are tryin, they know it will not work in the majority of cases.

 

[Si]

I have before now accidentally left my fleece in the car with a locking EKA in the pocket but I never feel the need to carry a knife except when I'm out stalking.

 

[gmart122]

The law was not passed to **** us guys off, but it needs to remain to let the police deal with the idiots carrying blades for self defence.

If it were just self defence, no trouble would start. They are going out with knives to start trouble with rival gangs with full intention of using the knife to injure or kill. They'd have a gun if they could get/afford it.

If they were concerned about their welfare, they'd stay at home.

 

[Moray Outfitting]

Everyone found the thread then!

Great replies - thank you.

It brings an interesting perspective to ( at risk of over dramatising ) the whole 'scene'.

Here's my take ( Andy ) it is just my take, nothing personal implied or intended. Hopefully this is taken as just polite open debate -

The E Petition isn't perfectly worded, these things are ideas articulated to the best ability of the petitioner - and long may it be so. To be clear it is not my petition, but a search will reveal it to be one of the few pro knife petitions running and not connected with the ' free home defence 44 Magnums for everyone in Kensington' types . There are a myriad of Anti knife petitions - most with significantly more support.

As it stands it isnt intolerable; perfect no. Arguably at law incorrect etc etc etc. But it is a marker. Will it get 100,000 signatures - no chance. So its a dead loss?

If I choose to write to my MP on the knife issue and sought to refer him to such a petition in an attempt to show the extent of feeling; does my letter increase or decrease in credibility if that petition has tens or thousands of votes? Forget the detail, what's the headline message - the number of pro votes.

Knife law is there to protect us. Totally agree. I will belabour this - I have lost a close family member to a bladed weapon. Does the current knife law provide that protection anymore effectively than the firearms legislation? Argue all you like but the answer is no guys. Focus on the object always means the problem gets ignored.

Read the comments above - distilled down to an essence they all come to one thing - the object. The inanimate object. Hopolophobia.

The City of Chicago went through traumatic, sad and interesting times from the late 1970's into the 1980's. They had a drug problem, a gang problem, a gun problem, a knife problem, a baseball bat problem, a hocky stick problem. And so on. Tough initiatives were launched on each of these 'problems' - and with measurable results. It was only upon looking back at length that some wise guy analysed that what they had actually had all along was a people problem!

Concurrent with various hard line crackdowns etc various initiatives were running to influence perspectives. Youth schemes, drug programmes, sports initiatives, safe hostels, counselling. Research in Chicago and elsewhere indicates that perception is the most powerful influence factor and perception is best affected by social interaction. They did not cure, but they helped the people problem - the associated object problem went away/ declined.

We are in the grip of a wave of intolerable knife crime? Any measure must be taken to to win the fight etc etc. As in Chicago knife crime is falling right now. Is it because a former Inspector had his Swiss Army knife confiscated at an Airport and on his return was charged? I doubt it. Is it because a thug with the mentality that he's going to carry a knife seriously spends a great deal of time worrying about being caught - or the consequences of being caught. It isnt, really it isnt.

Its because schemes have been running to influence perception - like drink driving, alter perception to change behaviour. Just those schemes get little of the headlines. De -escalation in action.

If you believe there is a direct link between Mr I A M Thug's criminal activity and the clarification of current law to allow the carrying of a safer, more sensible version of the already legally mandated form of a blade* I have to ask for someone to spell it out because I dont get it. * a type of folder advised as safer to use by government departments and published, respected knife practitioners.

You may not wish to carry any kind of blade whatsoever, have no conceivable circumstance in which it would ever happen - or such circumstance would be so rock solidly reasonable that there simply is no issue. That's fine and I fully respect that. I would like to carry a Leatherman Wave Multitool. Its blades are sub 3", but do lock as a safety feature. This benefit of locking removes the automatic right to public carry. It happens that I have employment that for 80-90% of the time likely creates a reasonable excuse. Case law shows that placing the tool in my glove box - or anywhere other than a tool box in the boot MAY expose me to possible prosecution and the consequent loss of my career. So I have to develop a convoluted series of arrangements to stay legal and yet still have that constant worry.

Checking Hansard, Parliament readily agreed to exempt folding blades upto 3" and appear to have considered that applied to all folding blades. As is usual with Parliament they were not expert enough to realise types existed and no organisation at the time sort to cover this issue or any other connected to it so as in all legislation, there was room for interpretation.

Subsequently cases went to Magistrates and then High Court and upon consulting an Oxford English Dictionary - which made no mention of a lock, the Courts decided the law did not extend to lock knives. A not unusual switch around of the legal tenet that what is not expressly prohibited is allowed.

So here I am, Mr Worried. The weight off my mind if this could be highlighted would be considerable. I do not feel that public safety would be compromised to any additional extent ( than the current legislation already provides ). I find a petition - imperfect, but a good starting point. It is a little optimistic to expect much to happen, but if you dont ask?

And in reply some of you decline to sign because it doesn't affect you, is of no relevance to you, the petition isnt well worded? If you genuinely believe this element would impact public safety I must at least respect your intentions. Outwith that, against 80,000 votes against the Badger Cull etc etc - how bodes the future for turning the slow decay of our sports?

 

[CWMMAN3738]

Well put Moray, we are the archetics of our own demise look at how many views these & others like them ( RSPCA slated)posts get & then how many ppl act it's a discracefull state of affairs that they have succeeded in the old saying decide and concquer & that's exactly what the politicians & antis have done!
The saying united we stand devised we fall is never mor true than at this present time as we are devised and our civil liberties & sport are being continue sly eroded while we as a majority either stand by and allow it with total apathy or spend our time squabbling amongst ourselves or over inconsequential things, and sadly ever so slowly we allow all these ever more oppressing things to be forced upon our lifestyles.

Everyone found the thread then!

Great replies - thank you.

It brings an interesting perspective to ( at risk of over dramatising ) the whole 'scene'.

Here's my take ( Andy ) it is just my take, nothing personal implied or intended. Hopefully this is taken as just polite open debate -

The E Petition isn't perfectly worded, these things are ideas articulated to the best ability of the petitioner - and long may it be so. To be clear it is not my petition, but a search will reveal it to be one of the few pro knife petitions running and not connected with the ' free home defence 44 Magnums for everyone in Kensington' types . There are a myriad of Anti knife petitions - most with significantly more support.

As it stands it isnt intolerable; perfect no. Arguably at law incorrect etc etc etc. But it is a marker. Will it get 100,000 signatures - no chance. So its a dead loss?

If I choose to write to my MP on the knife issue and sought to refer him to such a petition in an attempt to show the extent of feeling; does my letter increase or decrease in credibility if that petition has tens or thousands of votes? Forget the detail, what's the headline message - the number of pro votes.

Knife law is there to protect us. Totally agree. I will belabour this - I have lost a close family member to a bladed weapon. Does the current knife law provide that protection anymore effectively than the firearms legislation? Argue all you like but the answer is no guys. Focus on the object always means the problem gets ignored.

Read the comments above - distilled down to an essence they all come to one thing - the object. The inanimate object. Hopolophobia.

The City of Chicago went through traumatic, sad and interesting times from the late 1970's into the 1980's. They had a drug problem, a gang problem, a gun problem, a knife problem, a baseball bat problem, a hocky stick problem. And so on. Tough initiatives were launched on each of these 'problems' - and with measurable results. It was only upon looking back at length that some wise guy analysed that what they had actually had all along was a people problem!

Concurrent with various hard line crackdowns etc various initiatives were running to influence perspectives. Youth schemes, drug programmes, sports initiatives, safe hostels, counselling. Research in Chicago and elsewhere indicates that perception is the most powerful influence factor and perception is best affected by social interaction. They did not cure, but they helped the people problem - the associated object problem went away/ declined.

We are in the grip of a wave of intolerable knife crime? Any measure must be taken to to win the fight etc etc. As in Chicago knife crime is falling right now. Is it because a former Inspector had his Swiss Army knife confiscated at an Airport and on his return was charged? I doubt it. Is it because a thug with the mentality that he's going to carry a knife seriously spends a great deal of time worrying about being caught - or the consequences of being caught. It isnt, really it isnt.

Its because schemes have been running to influence perception - like drink driving, alter perception to change behaviour. Just those schemes get little of the headlines. De -escalation in action.

If you believe there is a direct link between Mr I A M Thug's criminal activity and the clarification of current law to allow the carrying of a safer, more sensible version of the already legally mandated form of a blade* I have to ask for someone to spell it out because I dont get it. * a type of folder advised as safer to use by government departments and published, respected knife practitioners.

You may not wish to carry any kind of blade whatsoever, have no conceivable circumstance in which it would ever happen - or such circumstance would be so rock solidly reasonable that there simply is no issue. That's fine and I fully respect that. I would like to carry a Leatherman Wave Multitool. Its blades are sub 3", but do lock as a safety feature. This benefit of locking removes the automatic right to public carry. It happens that I have employment that for 80-90% of the time likely creates a reasonable excuse. Case law shows that placing the tool in my glove box - or anywhere other than a tool box in the boot MAY expose me to possible prosecution and the consequent loss of my career. So I have to develop a convoluted series of arrangements to stay legal and yet still have that constant worry.

Checking Hansard, Parliament readily agreed to exempt folding blades upto 3" and appear to have considered that applied to all folding blades. As is usual with Parliament they were not expert enough to realise types existed and no organisation at the time sort to cover this issue or any other connected to it so as in all legislation, there was room for interpretation.

Subsequently cases went to Magistrates and then High Court and upon consulting an Oxford English Dictionary - which made no mention of a lock, the Courts decided the law did not extend to lock knives. A not unusual switch around of the legal tenet that what is not expressly prohibited is allowed.

So here I am, Mr Worried. The weight off my mind if this could be highlighted would be considerable. I do not feel that public safety would be compromised to any additional extent ( than the current legislation already provides ). I find a petition - imperfect, but a good starting point. It is a little optimistic to expect much to happen, but if you dont ask?

And in reply some of you decline to sign because it doesn't affect you, is of no relevance to you, the petition isnt well worded? If you genuinely believe this element would impact public safety I must at least respect your intentions. Outwith that, against 80,000 votes against the Badger Cull etc etc - how bodes the future for turning the slow decay of our sports?

 

[Moray Outfitting]

CWMMAN3738,, that's the thing though, at present things aren't really all that bad.

Things are OK enough that there isnt the impetus to really pull together and I really can and do understand others outlook that 'are things really so terrible' - because on a great many levels they are not.

Not trying to patronise in either direction. For all the recent outraged of Moray posts, just as often feel - well its not really worth getting in a lather over.

Only when viewed in terms of a progressive erosion of a whole class of activity over decades and in accelerated terms through media technology with regard to public perception do things really begin to look a bit 'wobbly'.

Extrapolated over the next few decades and it gets a bit scary!

Equally conscious that every generation perceives a worsening of status - at various levels - as a natural view point.

Just dont feel like I'm imagining all of it!

 

[CWMMAN3738]

Your not but the majority only look at the NOW aspect and how it affects them at the moment with no long term overview, that was my point they all sit back in apathy thinking that's ok I can live with that each time something changes slightly for the worse but add all those things up over decades & you get the picture of huge erroshion over time that we would never allow in one foul swoop but little by little accept because we either cannot or lack the will to fight on principle.

CWMMAN3738,, that's the thing though, at present things aren't really all that bad.

Things are OK enough that there isnt the impetus to really pull together and I really can and do understand others outlook that 'are things really so terrible' - because on a great many levels they are not.

Not trying to patronise in either direction. For all the recent outraged of Moray posts, just as often feel - well its not really worth getting in a lather over.

Only when viewed in terms of a progressive erosion of a whole class of activity over decades and in accelerated terms through media technology with regard to public perception do things really begin to look a bit 'wobbly'.

Extrapolated over the next few decades and it gets a bit scary!

Equally conscious that every generation perceives a worsening of status - at various levels - as a natural view point.

Just dont feel like I'm imagining all of it!

 

[Labrat]

Thing is, I've been following the knife debate for a good few years, and I know I said it on the other thread, but I honestly feel that the law is balanced pretty much perfectly as it is - if the knife is for work or another reasonable excuse, then you're in the clear.

Now, I'm not saying that the application of the law by the police is always in the spirit of the legislation, and there are no doubt cases where people have been stopped and failed the attitude test, and occasionally people have been arrested too, does every police officer use discretion when they could or should, no, but thats what the courts are there for, to reflect upon the situation in a cool, impartial setting. e.g. I have no doubt at all that a court would look differently at the case of a 19 year old Kevin who regularly partakes in fieldsports and lives in the countryside claiming he'd forgotten compared with a 19 year old Kevin in an inner london borough, its all about context)

but every time you seem to look beyond the initial news reports, it seems that the person with the knife has accepted a caution or pled guilty, and on those occasions when they have gone to court, they get cleared - the only ones I've seen where people get done are where they've 'forgotten' the knife in circumstances where I would personally doubt the veracity - for example:

[3] The appellant was detained by the police officers in a car park in Musselburgh at the rear of the premises of a veterinary surgeon. At that time the appellant was standing in the car park smoking a cigarette. He had a carrier bag in which there was a golf club.
[4] When the police officers asked the appellant to empty his pockets, he produced from the inside pocket of his jacket a double-edged serrated knife.

[5] The appellant told the officers that he had borrowed the knife from his mother when he had moved house some weeks before, and was now on his way to her house to return it. After leaving his home he had interrupted his journey for some golf practice. He had his dog with him. Then he had gone to the vet for advice about his dog. He had tethered the dog outside. When he came back from the bet, the dog had gone...
​

If you see where I'm coming from

Funnily enough, I found the policewoman with a knife and apples at the country fair one - seems she was cleared at court
The caravanner with a knife in his glovebox pleaded guilty

As I said before - I keep hearing that phrase 'had to accept a caution' - no, if you've done nothing wrong, you don't, take it to court.

I think the balance of the law is absolutley right, and you can't account for people pleading guilty when they shouldnt

please, if anyone can actually point me to a case of someone thats actually been successfully prosecuted, in a court, for carrying a knife they've had with them for legitimate countryside pursuits, show me, because I haven't seen one yet.

 

[Moray Outfitting]

Labrat - I'll go have a trawl as you suggest. Maybe the fear of 'wrongful' prosecution is just as powerful as the fear of violence! But in the exact terms you state ( to be pedantic ) there will not be one, because the law provides that reasonable excuse. That does not invalidate the proposition.

Case law aside, I do not believe that materially impacts upon clarification of the locking blade issue as discussed above. In the interim, its worth looking at - http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_manual/knives_and_offensive_weapons/
Slightly different with ACPO notes indicating zero tolerance stance and 'public expectation results', but I still argue that reliance on having to go through a court process for an element that could be clarified is the imposition of trial by administration. The process would be stressful and possibly expensive. Fine to say the good guys will always be acquitted - why should that process have to be endured when there is little or no public benefit from the statute that caused the issue?

This really is the crux of much of the anti-shooting campaign/ legislation - focus on object.

Reading the example cases noted on the link above - who has been actively protected by the locking knife element of the legislation?

 

[Labrat]

Moray, I think that the problem is clearly that the law is a blunt instrument

by its nature, it has to apply to both the sixty year old ex gamekeeper in rural northumberland, and the nineteen year old Lambeth street gang hoodie - the s139 law was there to deal with the fact that it was impossible to prosecute the hoodie who was a habitual knife carrier, because you couldn't prove intent.

In the same way, the case law on locking blades came about because there was no definition of folding - so if you had a knife that was essentially a fixed blade, but in theory you could take out a screw and fold it, then you couldn't prosecute.

As I say to you, I think the law as it is written is plain and simple enough, it allows common sense to be applied as appropriate - but clearly we do have a problem with townie police trying to apply the law in the same way in both situations, but thats such a deep cultural one that its hard to draw a balance (hey, how many of us remember when drink driving laws were things that were enforced only in towns too!).

 

[scrumbag]

Comment from Finnbear270 -

Current total................... 34, going to wither on the vine, signed it anyway, should be on the F.A.C.'s as a matter of course, (excellent suggestion from another member here)

Twaddle! Lock knives shouldn't be banned or restricted anyway let alone mentioned on an FAC. And it is dead right they shouldn't be restricted on health and safety grounds. They are safer to use. End of.

Jeez the UK makes my blood boil at times!

(Sorry, rant over)

 

[Kalahari]

Just thought if we all got a couple of extra email addresses we could sign lots!

David.

 

[CWMMAN3738]

I know that a vehicle is now accepted in law as a public place but what if it's fitted with a gun cabinet or draws which are lockable and contain all our kit inc knives so in effect our toolbox or our trade what would be the legal position then?? Just curio as I have fitted lockable gun draws in my truck?

 

[JabaliHunter]

I know that a vehicle is now accepted in law as a public place but what if it's fitted with a gun cabinet or draws which are lockable and contain all our kit inc knives so in effect our toolbox or our trade what would be the legal position then?? Just curio as I have fitted lockable gun draws in my truck?

Not sure, but the BASC advice is http://www.basc.org.uk/en/departments/firearms/knives-advice-and-guidance.cfm

Carrying a knife in public must be in connection with the activity for which it is needed; leaving itin your car or going into a shop with a knife in your pocket if you are returning from or going to a place where you farm, fish or shoot etc. would constitute good reason even though you do not have an immediate need to use the knife on the spot.
Document Summary

 

[Labrat]

I know that a vehicle is now accepted in law as a public place but what if it's fitted with a gun cabinet or draws which are lockable and contain all our kit inc knives so in effect our toolbox or our trade what would be the legal position then?? Just curio as I have fitted lockable gun draws in my truck?

For anyone whose occupation (whether full or even part time second career) is stalking, there is an absolute dispensation for knives which are work related, if you have it for work, you're in the clear - and there is caselaw that has supported this defence even if you had it for work and left it in your jacket and forgot it was there (DPP vs Chatal)

more difficult for purely recreational stalkers, in that it would be considered under the 'good reason' test - I'd maintain that it would depend on the circumstances, if you lived in London, hadn't been stalking for six months but kept it in the car, then you would have more of a case to make than someone who was stalking regularly and maybe lived in the sticks, and likewise it would be different if you had it in the front drivers door bin, rather than in glovebox, or in the boot in a bag of outdoors kit or stalking jacket.

Again, circumstances would play a part - done for speeding having been out foxing is different from stopped late at night with a barrel of red diesel in the back of your transit and a knife in your pocket

all reeks of common sense to me!