Long range shooting....

Andy L

Well-Known Member
I have seen this clip before. If he had been putting holes in paper at that range then he may have impressed me. Taking deer at that range is not acceptable, however good the marksman is.
Just my humble opinion anyway!
 

Nick Gordon

Well-Known Member
Where do you draw the line as to what range is unacceptable? Surely, it's a personal thing?

Yes, I accept that the further the target the greater the variables such as wind deviation etc.

I know my own limitations and won't try and shoot any thing much beyond 250 metres even though my pal assures me I'm not doing justice to my rifle - a heavy barrelled Sako 308.

I gut shot a deer early in my stalking experience and despite searching that night and the following morning for a total of 5 hours I didn't find the beast.

Because I don't want that feeling again I stick to squeezing the trigger only when I 'm certain.

Nick
 

David BASC

Well-Known Member
Official Member
Not being a stalker you may well say I am not qualified to pass comment – fair enough, but I think Nick is spot on. It has nothing to do with the rifle bullet per se- everything on the market will kill at up to and well over 250m.

The big questions are:

Can you judge the range accurately?
Are you confident to hit the target at that range?
Are you competent enough to hit that target at that range?
Are you fully comfortable with the shot?

Airgunning and pigeon shooting are my main sports- and I am often involved in debates about the maximum range of an off ticket airgun to kill a rabbit. The answer is that an airgun will kill a rabbit with a head shot at say 35m – but the maximum range for you would be the range at which you can put a pellet into a circle the size of a 1p coin – if that is 20m then that is your max range- and you need to practice your field craft skill to stalk within 20m.

In pigeon shooting range judging is the main thing…but I guess I am drifting a bit – sorry.

David
 

tartinjock

Distinguished Member
Depends on species and equipment.

With my .243 which I have shot all but 1 deer with from Sika to Roe, I am more than happy to shoot upto 200m, maby a bit beyond if everything else was right for me. I am very confident with this rifle.

With my .308, I am not confident with yet, down to lack of use. I intend to change this prior to the Doe season with lots of range work, experimenting with hand loads etc, this will bolster my confidence in it, so again, I would be confident at longer ranges using it.

I am of the impression though, that anybody with the equipment can shoot to 250m plus, this is not what the sport is about with me however. I'm not saying I want to get as close as 20m to a deer, which I have done and shot it, but 50-100m is alwasys a good achievement in whatever the enviroment, be it wood, which is a double edged sword, good cover but noisy underfoot, to open ground, using the features that are given naturally.

Very few people out there can out shoot a factory rifle using factory ammo, but it's nice to know you can push that little further to your quarrie.

Look at fox/vermin shooters, often shots are taken over 200m, at night with success.

Just my pennies worth...
 

griff

Well-Known Member
I agree with Nick on this one,"its a personal thing".
don't condemn someone elses capabilties just becuase you are not capable of doing the same,or its not your cup of tea.
Just how many deer have been missed at point blank range!
Should these people stop shooting..
What you don't see is and is never discussed is the equipment these people have, wind meters,inclinometers,range finders and of course a rifle that is capable.
Any rifle that shoots sub moa is capable out to a 1000yds in the right conditions, I wonder how many of us have shot deer on windy day and never even taken the wind in to account.
Missed them at 50yds killed them stone dead at 500yds.
just my two cents worth..

regards
griff
 

Beowulf

Well-Known Member
This old cookie has rolled around again I see. I leave it to the individual and his concience what they do in the field. I was the first person on this site to highlight what can go wrong with shooting a deer at any range. I posted the mistakes I made and the regret that I felt about making them and injurying the deer. How many other people will admit the cocking it up and leaving a deer to die slowly? Why do we only ever hear about how good a shot these people are?

Is this another '****ing competition'?

I just wish that we had as many posts on the Deer Welfare Section.
 

sikamalc

Administrator
Site Staff
Long range shooting of deer, yes if you really have to do it if a client has screwed up to save the day, or the deer is showing some other disability, and you have the confidence to take a shot of over 200yds.

But to say its stalking NO. People who think they can regularly take deer in excess of 200 to 300 yds are not showing due respect for the deer, note the word regularly please ;)
 

griff

Well-Known Member
"a man has got to know his limitations"

The question is : are you a deerstalker,or a deerkiller!

regards
griff
 

griff

Well-Known Member
I'm afraid the luxury of do I stalk it, or shoot it has long gone unfortunately.What started out as enjoyable hobby is far removed from what I do today..
With me running the Arran stalking scheme, which i enjoy tremendously, especially when i see people with their first deer. I do get many people commenting on how they envy my job and the other aspects of my work,and that they would love to do what I do.
That is a world far removed from the recreational stalker,am I going to reach the cull, did I fill in theH&S paperwork are but just a few of the bureuacratic nonsense that we have to endure, being diplomatic ( of which I am told I am not).

Malc,
I think we are old adversaries of this argument from AR, as I said earlier shot them at 50 shot them 500, do I show them respect? you bet your arse I do, do I enjoy killing them? not anymore! But I do enjoy the shot! wether it be 50 or 500yds. Missed very few at 500+yds but missed a shed load at 50yds.
the irony of all this: I WOULD RATHER GO FISHING! OR SHOOT PAPER TARGETS.
Brings a tear to mi glass eye.

regards
griff
 

sikamalc

Administrator
Site Staff
I agree with Griff and Little Terry. I am not a numbers man, I have done too much over the years, large culls on deer parks have no interest to me what so ever, and I am not over bothered about shooting for the sake of it. But whether you are culling with a large cull figure to achieve it does not give you the excuse to take stupid shots on a regular or irregular basis.

Hands up how many times someone has succesfully shot a deer, and at 500yds in their stalking life, 2,3,4 times. I would assume its a Red, Fallow or possibly a Sika, dont tell me its a Muntjac or Roe please!!!

Three years ago I was asked to carry out the initial cull on what had been the Vesties Estate in Scotland, 44,400 acres no roads, no machines to extract. Some areas where only accessible by boat. The historic cull was 200 head. Between myself and 5 other rifles who I organised we took 180 in 3 months. Now there could have been long range shooting involved, but there was not, and every carcase was bought in off the hill intact. I also managed a 12000 acre estate in scotland for a gentleman in Sussex for 9 years. I now own the rights and manage an 8000 acre estate, part of which is a triple sssci site as its old Caledonian Forest.

I have no issue in taking a long shot, if you are competant to do it, but even the best of shots is going to screw up, if they persist in taking ridiculous shots. And 500 yds across a Scottish hillside, well you had better know your rifle inside out, the area you are stalking on, and it had better be a still day ;)
 

The Mole

Well-Known Member
Although there are circumstances when a long shot might be necessary, it shouldn't be the norm. There are too many variables involved that can c*ck it up. Any long distance target shooter knows how the wind alone can change direction and speed several times between rifle and the target.

The real satisfaction is stalking lies in getting close for the shot and being as sure as you can be that it's going to be a good humane kill. If the only satisfaction you get is seeing a deer fall over, whatever the range, I suggest that you ought to be doing something else for kicks.

If you want to prove how good you are at a distance, why not use a paper target on the range. You can't gut shoot that or blow its jaw off.
 

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