lymes disease

stone

Well-Known Member
#1
not sure if this is the right section but plese feel free to move it if not
now then norman
lymes disease i think you know why i ask the question as i know it is now rife in the chesire area
i hav seen several reported cases in the local rag (metro news)
and now found out a good friend of mine has contracted it
how bad is it and what are the early warning signs,
i know lymes disease can be life threatening
any help would be apprecitated by myself and others, that i am sure of
ATB
stone
 

remmy7

Well-Known Member
#2
Hi Stone,

Sorry to hear about your friend, The best advice I think I can offer is to research the disease on the internet as most local GP's are not really up to speed on the disease. It can actually have many different early symptoms or indeed no real early symtoms at all. A few of my mates have been diagnosed and have received treatment and I myself was given the Anti biotic course as a precautionary measure ( it made feel worse than 6 months of Chemo) A good site to look at is www.lymediseaseaction.org.uk.

All the best Remmy7
 

stone

Well-Known Member
#3
cheers remmy
what an interesting site
would you mind if i ask admin to put it as a sticky or announcement so it remained at the top of the list for ever more, as this is obviously a important consideration to bear in mind with finding ticks on a beast or yourself
ATB
stone
 

morena

Well-Known Member
#4
A run down on Lyme Disease.
Firstly it is a zoonosis. That is transmissible between animals and humans.

Symptoms:- All the diagnostic features mention a red spot around the tick bite which gradually spreads outwards. This occurs in less than 40% of cases. The main presenting signs are flu like but can range from tiredness/fatigue/generally feeling unwell/headache/temperature/muscle and joint pains/stiff neck/swollen glands. these cover a multitude of diseases. Stone and I both know of a stalker who had double vision. After a night looking into the bottom of glasses initially less than sympathetic.
Sorry will need to go into fair detail so you are forearmed. The tick bites you and injects the infection. Not only are Borrelia burgdorfer present but other bacteria as well you then develop a bacteriaemia. This means bacteria get into the bloodstream and are spread around the body and attacks different organs. This then becomes the major presenting symptom,in joints (arthritis),brain similar to meningitis. The spirochaete Bb also enters the cells and forms a coat around itself. There is a transitory immune response before this and blood taken at this point may give a positive
In medicine, drugs are tested for MIC (minimum inhibitory concentration) To be effective the level has to be above this the whole time. Now the antibiotic level has to be above this when the bacteria loose this coat as they multiply. Also to be effective it has to be at a very high level to penetrate the cells. Double dose normally.
The initial problem with the GP is generally they now nothing about zoonosis because they are not lectured on them. If you are lucky they may look it up on the internet and there is where the fun starts. Our own HPA ( health protection agency) has adopted he guidelines of the IDSA (Infectious Diseases Society of America) expert group. Unfortunately these are based on faulty science.
If you are lucky? may take a blood sample for testing which is hit or miss, there are 3 tests available but often they don't agree on the same sample.
If it is negative don't have the disease because they don't know how to interpret the result !!!!!
The HPA suggests a short course of antibiotics. I disagree on personal observation. When we have diagnosed and treated working dogs have always doubled the normal dose and kept them on it for a long course. Chronic Lyme Disease is difficult to treat and is potentially very nasty.
Anyone want clarification pm me.
 

Xim

Well-Known Member
#6
stone said:
as this is obviously a important consideration to bear in mind with finding ticks on a beast or yourself
ATB
stone
i have found lots of ticks on the deer in my area. horrible little bastards.

skinning gets more on my arms/ hands etc i have to check constantly and brush them off before they get a chance to dig in.

so far i have had 2 that burrowed into both of my knees. fairly small ticks about the size of a pin head.

some1 at the CLS advised me to make a ring of vasaline :eek: :eek:
around my.......... :eek: :eek: :eek: wrists to prevent them from crawling too far up.


holy ****.. http://www.bath.ac.uk/news/articles/releases/lyme200706.html

just found this ..and this is my area :O
 

Bandit Country

Well-Known Member
#7
Xim said:
holy ****.. http://www.bath.ac.uk/news/articles/releases/lyme200706.html

just found this ..and this is my area :O
This article advocates tick removal with "tweezers", which I understand can increase the risk of a) an inadvertently squeezed tick 'throwing up' into the bite site and b) leaving bits of its head embedded in you - both of which increase the risk of infection.

I always carry an O'Tom tick removal tool as suggested by thes folk:

www.lymediseaseaction.org.uk/information/tick_removal.htm
 

stone

Well-Known Member
#9
morena said:
Stone and I both know of a stalker who had double vision. After a night looking into the bottom of glasses initially less than sympathetic.
norman
i remember this evening well,
and also the next morning, it was the morning i shot my first ever sika, but thats another story
the stalker in question went to a doctors surgery in Tarbet (argyll) on the monday morning where they spoke about lymes as there was an associaton with deer but treated him for a minor stroke , this was almost 3 years ago and now it turns out to be lymes

morena said:
Anyone want clarification pm me.
please , please , please
anyone with any doubt at all take up norman's (morena) offer of clarification
it may save your health or even your life
 

stone

Well-Known Member
#10
xim
i seem to be very lucky, as i hav never found a tick on any of the deer i hav shot
except a roe buck once down devon way
so i touch wood every night and thank my lucky stars but still keep a sharp eye out just in case
you never know
becarefull , be safe
 

Fester

Well-Known Member
#11
Dont start panicking everyone when you read this thread :rolleyes:
Just a few things about tick bites are!
just because you may have been bitten by a tick doesnt mean you have contracted lymes disease,
not all ticks will carry the disease & the transmission from tick to human doesnt happen as soon as it bites you anyway, The most likely time of getting infected is when the tick is about to finish its feeding cycle when it then regurgitates some of its stomach contents to enable it to release itself from you. This is the most likely cause & time of infection. The same applies to the removal of the tick by means of tick tweezers etc. Great care must be applied to how this is done so that the body of the tick is not "Squeezed" in anyway while you grip it to remove it from your skin. this can force its body contents back into your blood stream & can cause infection :eek: however in case of any tick bite a course of anti biotics & a blood test is probably the safest option. You will need to express your condition, actions & what exactly you want your GP to test for & state you want the test carried out by a specialist in this type of disease tho or he will not have a clue what to do with your blood sample :eek:
morena is correct, there really is very little known about the disease & i believe there are currently only 3 specialist test labs in the UK that can actually do an effective test for it :???: Your local GP has got about as much chance of finding it than i have of winning the Lotto :eek:
Im lucky in the fact that my Other half works with Blood at a major hospital & they have some of the leading experts in the country with regards to blood conditions, Even they know very limited info about Lymes disease. :eek:
She is finding out as much info as possible for me from the specialist who she works for who has a genuine interest in this condition.
 

snowstorm

Well-Known Member
#12
I thing an excellent pinned topic here would be a summary of what to do and what to tell your GP exactly to do, if you are bitten by a tick.

Something you could print out and carry with you.
 

re'M'ington

Well-Known Member
#13
Xim said:
stone said:
as this is obviously a important consideration to bear in mind with finding ticks on a beast or yourself
ATB
stone
i have found lots of ticks on the deer in my area. horrible little bastards.

skinning gets more on my arms/ hands etc i have to check constantly and brush them off before they get a chance to dig in.

so far i have had 2 that burrowed into both of my knees. fairly small ticks about the size of a pin head.

some1 at the CLS advised me to make a ring of vasaline :eek: :eek:
around my.......... :eek: :eek: :eek: wrists to prevent them from crawling too far up.


holy ****.. http://www.bath.ac.uk/news/articles/releases/lyme200706.html

just found this ..and this is my area :O
This is my area as well Xim,but,apart from the odd one,I haven't found too many on the Roe I have shot,although the dogs have picked up quite a few,and,my elderly mother had one in the middle of her back.I joked that she must of been giving them to the dogs..........she wasn't very impressed...lol................Martin.
 

stone

Well-Known Member
#14
i do agree with steyr243 a little on this
in the sense don't panick to much, just be carefull and be warned
like i said earlier , my stalker mate was diagnosed 3 years later from any initial signs that had shown at the time
just be carefull ladies and gents
stone
 

morena

Well-Known Member
#15
Lyme disease. Firstly some background info.
Our HPA (Health Protection Agency) give guidelines to GPs as to the diagnosis and treatment of lyme disease in the UK. Unfortunately they are following recommendations of the IDSA (Infectious Disease Society of America) which are based on faulty science. They advise a short treatment with normal doses of antibiotics. Regrettably antibiotics have to be at high levels for 2-3 weeks to successfully treat the condition.
Will go through the scenario with comments.
Infected tick bites stalker. Now perceived wisdom is that must be present for a while to set up infection. Latest research indicates infection can be much earlier. The sign most people look for is Erythema migrans (bull's eye) This is a red rash spreading around the bite Like a stone dropped in water giving waves. In some cases this can be anywhere on the body away from the bite. Only present in approx 40% of cases.
Feeling as previously posted, visit to GP. Not seen it before etc. Take blood sample. Ticks carry other bacteria as well so you can get a non specific rise in Immunogloblins Ig M. Negative for Lyme Disease. Wrong Need to test for Ig A specific to Borrrelia species This only develops in the body 4-8 weeks after infection. The tests are Elisa and/or IFA.
In America Lyme Disease is due exclusively to Borrelia burgdorferi (Bb). These tests are very insensitive and can give false negatives To further complicate the issue the majority of cases in the UK are caused by Borrelia garinii (Bg). A close relative of Bb so an insensitive test is even worse at detecting a response to these. The next test to confirm a diagnosis is an immunoblot test ( Western blot ) Now when they were developing the antibodies for the test they left out some of the key bits. Thus false negatives.
There is a further test PCR which detects the DNA of the bacteria. Now you need a full breakdown of the spirochaete for comparison, thus the bits left out originally become relevant.

All these tests take time and you are feeling worse and worse. Danger of becoming chronic when you are then in big trouble. As need to have intravenous antibiotics then.
There is a big conference in Boston USA in October for the great and good on Lyme disease and I have a contact who will let me have the latest info.

Also I have contact with a research microbiologist who could be interested in testing ticks for presence of Borrelia species as part of his research. I personally think this is well worth doing as it could give us a picture of what's going on in areas we stalk. If sufficient people are prepared to submit ticks would they pm me and I can go back to him and say so many are prepared to collect ticks.
Always bear in mind as well our dogs can get this disease which comes up as swollen joints arthritis etc. I first became interested when a greyhound developed it and subsequently saw gun dogs with it. Fortunately I had a contact in the States at the time and he pushed tests for me. The local experts were interested but no help.
 

basil

Distinguished Member
#17
willie_gunn said:
Morena

I don't tend to see a lot of ticks (other than when I'm in Scotland), but if it would help the research I'd be happy to send in any that I do find.

willie_gunn
I haven`t seen many either but i`d be happy to send any in.
basil.
 

njc110381

Well-Known Member
#18
Not many in my area really (apart from the one I got on me some time ago, but that was in a sheep field so may not be of use?). If I do find them on Deer I shoot I'd be happy to send them off for testing if you let me know how/where.
 

RED-DOT

Account Suspended
#19
Only certain parts of the UK have Lymes present in the resident ticks and the Government know where these areas are but they won't release this information to protect the tourist numbers which i think is putting lives at risk. From going from -20 to +30 here in one month in Central Scotland i see more ticks on my two dogs than this time ever.
A chap that i know has lymes and he has has to retire from his job and he can sleep for 36h without waking up, even for a loo break and he is on constant saline drips.. Take care out there.
 

bambislayer

Well-Known Member
#20
If you are in an area where lymme disease is present and you have a bite that you are concerned about then demand your GP puts you on anti biotics, don't wait for inconclusive tests.
Contact BADA if you have any problems with your GP.
I contracted Lymme Disease 15yrs ago, I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

If in doubt seek medical attention.

I have been covered in ticks all my life, it's pretty common for me to take 50+ off a night, and have at least 30 bites on each leg,[I don't wear +4's in the summer!!!!!] however I know people in wheel chairs with lymme disease who have only ever had 1 tick bite!
 

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