Making stalking more accessible

[Dukesarcher]

In what ways do you think stalking could be made more accessible to the general public?

Do you think a North American tag style system could work here in the UK?

 

[nun_hunter]

We don't have the expanses of public owned land as in the USA/Australia/NZ etc for a tag system to work. Too many people on too small an island and nearly all of the land is in private ownership.

 

[Dukesarcher]

We don't have the expanses of public owned land as in the USA/Australia/NZ etc for a tag system to work. Too many people on too small an island and nearly all of the land is in private ownership.

That is a good point.

 

[davidm]

Stalking is avalible to everyone, just at a price. But I would rather that than not having a clue who’s on what ground. I don’t think roe does at approx £80 per outing is not that expensive.

 

[Rake Aboot]

As long as someone is willing to empty their wallet , it will be accessible.

Other than that , closed shop.

 

[countrryboy]

Considering stalking is a relatively new thing to the lowlands, I'd say its fairly accessable.

Probably stalking has never been as accesable, deer are spreading there range all over UK, numbers rising and probably more guides than ever before.
Even the relatively recent rise in selling hind stalking means ther eis far more cheap stalking available.

It would be impossible to compare UK to stalking elsewhere, even in Europe/scandi its widely done by the local community groups but they all have far more space and less private land ownership and its more traditional.

 

[SimpleSimon]

If we're talking about a wish list, I'd like to see more stalking made available through syndicates, especially south of the border. Seems the only real way to get your own patch down here is to be very lucky in who you know, or to have deep enough pockets to buy exclusivity. Syndicates would make deer management (not just deer shooting) more accessible to the common man, in my opinion.

 

[User00047]

In what ways do you think stalking could be made more accessible to the general public?

Do you think a North American tag style system could work here in the UK?

Stalking is very accessible in the UK. I don't actually think it could be any more so. Compare it with owning and driving a car....as long as you are competent you can do as much as you like every day!

 

[slider]

That is a good point.

Exactly.

To add that I would like to see going to music concerts more accessible. Hundreds of pounds to see my favourite bands because of a crooked ticketing system and all to be packed in a stadium hundred of meters from the band for a couple of hours.

Happens in all walks of life.

 

[JTO]

As long as someone is willing to empty their wallet , it will be accessible.

Other than that , closed shop.

Just about sums it up.

 

[sikamalc]

Plenty of state owned land in the UK. Its called the forestry commission.

However trying to get them to open up to stalking and managing deer is a nonsense, there is a large area near to the estate I manage and it came up for lease some years back. The lease was offered to myself and the 3 other rifles I had lined up, however when looking into the small print it specified only 10 Roe Bucks and 10 Fallow Bucks between 1st April and the end of October. This would have been at a cost of £100 + vat per animal. They still manage the area with one commission ranger.

That's the last and final time I had anything to do with the commission.

 

[countrryboy]

The simple fact is there's too many folk wanting to go stalking now so u will never all get ur own ground.

While syndicates may get slightly more folk involved if ur not in the 3,6-10 rifles involved it's just as much of a closed shop. How many syndicates have rifles that never turn out all year?
The other thing with syndicates is they can afford more expensive rents so could push rents up across the board, and it might be even more likely the syndicates will not be locals.
Many pro stalkers are not charging fortunes, in fact I'm surprised some make much money at all, some rents are over 100 a beast now and that's in Scotland so quite often u would be better off going out with a pro stalker (esp by the time u factor in desiel, traveltime and accom)
Ur actually better off having pro stalkers paying cheap rent than syndicates to make stalking more accessable

I live in an area surrounded by decent stalking/forestry lot's of it syndicated, very few locals have access to it, many syndicates don't like locals joining as they're scared they'll camp on the ground and shoot everything

Really there is no easy way to get ur own ground and the ground they're is is also used by so many other folk as well, just too many folk living in a small island

 

[User00025]

All depends on how much time you want to spend stalking. For most working folk it can be just a few times a year, so they are far better off going out with someone like Sika Malc or another reputable professional who provide to my mind a very reasonable service. If you want to go out every week then it is worth paying for your own bit.
Fortunately I have some land and got it by doing the Rabbits and pigeons. I am there probably five days a week, not necessarily stalking, mostly just sitting about enjoying watching wild life. I have a few nice Roe on the place and could have shot a couple of good bucks, but just prefer to observe them, in fact they come to within fifty yards of me now and know I am there. To me it would be no sport at all to shoot them as they are not causing any problems. I do however have to keep on top of the Fallow. Others could not put in the time that I do, and thankfully I am retired so it has all become my "Raison d'Etre" but eventually I will hand it over to someone who can give the land the same commitment.

 

[sir-lamp-alot]

going to stick my neck out here and possilbly ruffle a few feathers but I dont think stalking should be made avalible to every tom dick and harry, stalking deer is a responsabilty that should be worked upto not just somthing you can dip your toe into and have a go at. Theres to many have a go heros in the countryside buying guns and rampaging about blasting at this and that with no real idea what there doing or why there doing it, I'm sure if i asked half of them to paunch a rabbit under a ash tree they would either not know how to do it or what a ash tree looked like and the other half would say "well I dont eat the rabbits I shoot so I just hedge them" and whilst I would never want to see shooting of all types as a old boys club with no way in I would like to see people work there way up from the bottom learning there way through it all and become true countrymen and women along the way not just someone who has a gun and access to land.

 

[enfieldspares]

Stalking is available to everyone, just at a price.

Like the old quote I was told when I did my law that justice, like the Ritz Hotel, is open to everyone. In other words anyone has access to it...if they can afford to pay to play.

Just as the DAVDM says...but the same argument is advanced against the one or two guys that hoover up an area's pigeon shooting then sell days at fifty quid a punt. You see them advertising on the internet "XXXshire Pigeon" or "XXX Counties Decoying" etc..

The last "free" shooting, AFAIK, was the old WAGBI negotiated foreshore Crown Rights that its members could once enjoy.

 

[Precision123]

There is an established system but it just doesn't work. It is neither fair or successful.

The challenge we face is that those who control the deer think that we ordinary folk want to shoot and pay considerable amounts of cash for the pleasure. And if you want to keep the carcass, you pay again. And if they determine that it has a trophy value, you pay again.

If this is the case then most people cannot justify the ownership of a stalking rifle.

And at the same time, deer numbers are increasing, more RTA's etc. So it's a very one sided, unfair system. Great if you (forestry commission, private land owner, shooting rights etc) own the land but not for everybody else.

I wonder if there's a better way?

P123

 

[Dipper]

The thread made me curious about the US regulations and their potential application here: 'In addition to a valid California hunting license, deer tags are also required and must be in possession when taking deer. Hunters may obtain two deer tags per license year.'

It would appear that the public land is available to all but for a maximum of two deer a year, $40 resident and $160 non-resident (of California). Given that this is unguided and generally requires 4x4 vehicle access followed by a yomp it probably wouldn't suit the average recreational stalker in the UK. Looking through the blurb the general vibe I get is that hunts are often mini 'expeditions'. In terms of 'availability' to individuals the UK seems more geared towards either deer management groups / syndicates or alternatively guided outings for recreational stalkers. Never having hunted there I may be completely off the mark - but it does seem to be a fundamentally different approach.

 

[countrryboy]

If u look at the NZ example DoC (dept of conservation) owns massive massive amounts of land and builds and maintains huts (althou some are pretty rough).
Foirdland alone could be a similar size to wales in 1 continuous inaccessible block.

In most of NZ u can pretty much please urself wot u shoot, no real seasons and very little retriction on DoC land (apart from during the roar on very busy bits of land where its a free draw for beats)
But the size of some of the woods/land are gigantic, we flew in to a hut that was 4 days walk from the nearest dirt track and it was just on the edge when u looked at the map, the big difference is that there is not the same demand on forestry by other recreational users, dog walkers, bikers, hikers, runners.
Most FC woods are open access and in many cases it's actively encouraged.

I do agree with exactly wot sir lamp a lot said, sometimes it's a good thing that not everyone can just get out shooting.

I can't see any different fair way of doing it, there's simply too many stalkers after too little land that is already busy with people esp nearer the big cities.

 

[slider]

Population density in the UK, 260 people per sq km, USA 33, NZ 16.

That means the likelihood of bumping into another person is 1600% higher in the UK than NZ. That in itself is a reason why open hunting on public land wouldn't work

 

[Rake Aboot]

going to stick my neck out here and possilbly ruffle a few feathers but I dont think stalking should be made avalible to every tom dick and harry, stalking deer is a responsabilty that should be worked upto not just somthing you can dip your toe into and have a go at. Theres to many have a go heros in the countryside buying guns and rampaging about blasting at this and that with no real idea what there doing or why there doing it, I'm sure if i asked half of them to paunch a rabbit under a ash tree they would either not know how to do it or what a ash tree looked like and the other half would say "well I dont eat the rabbits I shoot so I just hedge them" and whilst I would never want to see shooting of all types as a old boys club with no way in I would like to see people work there way up from the bottom learning there way through it all and become true countrymen and women along the way not just someone who has a gun and access to land.

Pretty much disagree with most of that.