Maximum calibre.
- Thread starter Skye
- Start date
Treedave
Well-Known Member
I’m yet to plough through the proposed guidance, so I’m working with the 2016 version posted earlier. Personally I think there are bigger consistency issues, the strange addiction to specifying cartridge and calling it calibre etc etc. If “larger calibres” are going to need ground inspecting (and yes I’d love to see the guidance that covers that!) then what is the point of an open certificate? At present the liability firmly rests with the open cert holder, I wonder if that changes if an FEO says it’s ok for X cal on Y area of ground.
Then there is the weird and wonderful world of external ballistics and bullet types/weights - interesting times ahead.
Then there is the weird and wonderful world of external ballistics and bullet types/weights - interesting times ahead.
The line that I took when questioned about why I wanted another 308 was that it would only require one holding of ammunition, rather than needing the ability to keep another 250 rounds of a different calibres.
I'm lost here. I just skimmed over the latest documents that I'm aware of and can't find any relation to these concerns? Only a mention of arms producing more than 13,600 Joules possibly requiring additional security. 13,600 Joules is a lot of energy. Well beyond all but the very biggest sporting cartridges. My .416 Rigby for example can't even get close, it's barely over half that with a stout load!
The table listing calibres is nothing new. The likes of .375H&H have been noted as a firm no as deer rounds without other initial reason for them being granted for as long as I can remember?
harrygrey382
Well-Known Member
What’s driving these new directives? Have there been recent cases of members of the public being hit by stray bullets from large calibers? Or a spate of crimes committed using large calibre doubles, lever or bolt action hunting rifles?
One thing to consider with the big game calibres is bullet availability in deer type construction.
I've got a 375 conditioned for deer, but I'm struggling to get a bullet that will reliably expand in a roe. I don't want to carry 2 rifles 375 for big reds and my 270 (or 308) for the smaller ones.
As said above, I'd go for a stout premium bullet for your 25-06
I've got a 375 conditioned for deer, but I'm struggling to get a bullet that will reliably expand in a roe. I don't want to carry 2 rifles 375 for big reds and my 270 (or 308) for the smaller ones.
As said above, I'd go for a stout premium bullet for your 25-06
Out of interest which bullets have you tried? I haven’t tried any yet but I have high hopes for the 250g Barnes TTSX working well on UK deer and plains game
Nothing yet, I don't want to risk a problem.
Sorry, what clause are you referring to? As far as I am aware there is no requirement for cleared land in an open ticket and some people including many on here just interpret it that way
I always thought there was a need as part of the initial requirement for the gun. Could well be wrong though - it's only an assumption I've made.
My force had a bit of a wobble when they realised they'd granted me a .338 on land cleared to .30. They came out, inspected it and changed it to .338. But at the same time I had a .45-70. Now I've got a .416 too? Who knows? You could fire a .50BMG on my main patch and it wouldn't be an issue so I guess if they make a fuss they'll just have to clear it again!
That would make having an open ticket a bit of a waste of time. None of my land is cleared for anything bigger than .22. No issues at renewal for 4 fox calibres and 4 deer calibres
My impression of an open ticket was that it allowed me to shoot on other places that aren't cleared. If they had to clear every piece of land I shoot over I could keep the whole office busy for a week, and there are always new spots turning up which need to be dealt with at short notice. Your interpretation is more sensible and could well be right.
It's another case of different forces interpreting the law/guidelines in their own way. I have to say that on this subject I'm guilty of having just gone along with it as there's never been a reason for me to argue over it. Generally speaking I only read up on the parts that bring me bother, ie getting a new calibre passed for something they usually wouldn't allow!
I'm currently in discussion regarding my .375 H&H.
I was initially told out right there was no way I would get a .375 on an open ticket. And " no one else in Cornwall had one" I mentioned that I knew of 3 people with .375s in Cornwall on AOLQ. Eventually the tune changed. I was told I had written an excellent letter but it was still very unlikely to be granted.
I just asked him to apply the guidance to my situation. I visit South Africa once a year to see my wife's family. I'm very lucky to be able to hunt there. I would like to do load development and test out various hand loads for accuracy and on red deer before going away. I explained I am lucky to shoot in Scotland at a friend's place where you can see about a mile in either direction across the valley floor and its surrounded by very steep 2500ft hills. I can't think of anywhere safer to use such a rifle.
He said he would contact police Scotland to see if they were happy for me to shoot a .375 at that particular place and to see if the land was cleared for such a big calibre. Which I was surprised about as I would have thought if it was an open ticket it's my decision whether a shot is safe or not
My .375 is currently conditioned for use abroad and zeroing in this country but only with non expanding ammo! (Definitely more of a riccochet risk than expanding) on a range that's cleared for it, with insurance.
I'm not holding my breath for a .375 on AOLQ when my renewal comes back but we will see.
Though if anyone reading this has land that's cleared and would be happy for me to do some load development on it please send me a pm it may help me when I have my next discussion with them.
Good luck with the bigger bores gents. I have a feeling that those that grant them are going to be less keen to do so than a few years ago.
I was initially told out right there was no way I would get a .375 on an open ticket. And " no one else in Cornwall had one" I mentioned that I knew of 3 people with .375s in Cornwall on AOLQ. Eventually the tune changed. I was told I had written an excellent letter but it was still very unlikely to be granted.
I just asked him to apply the guidance to my situation. I visit South Africa once a year to see my wife's family. I'm very lucky to be able to hunt there. I would like to do load development and test out various hand loads for accuracy and on red deer before going away. I explained I am lucky to shoot in Scotland at a friend's place where you can see about a mile in either direction across the valley floor and its surrounded by very steep 2500ft hills. I can't think of anywhere safer to use such a rifle.
He said he would contact police Scotland to see if they were happy for me to shoot a .375 at that particular place and to see if the land was cleared for such a big calibre. Which I was surprised about as I would have thought if it was an open ticket it's my decision whether a shot is safe or not
My .375 is currently conditioned for use abroad and zeroing in this country but only with non expanding ammo! (Definitely more of a riccochet risk than expanding) on a range that's cleared for it, with insurance.
I'm not holding my breath for a .375 on AOLQ when my renewal comes back but we will see.
Though if anyone reading this has land that's cleared and would be happy for me to do some load development on it please send me a pm it may help me when I have my next discussion with them.
Good luck with the bigger bores gents. I have a feeling that those that grant them are going to be less keen to do so than a few years ago.
We are mixing issues here. I have no doubt about the position you assert and I rely on it as many do. The issue at hand is that certain forces are taking the HOG regarding grant of larger calibres and applying it retrospectively to existing licence holders and seeking cleared land. I am aware of increasing numbers of perfectly legitimately held open tickets on larger calibres being rescinded. I am definitely not advocating it - I am just making people aware it is happening such that those affected can talk to their respective shooting organisations.
This raises many questions about the likelihood of FEOs having the knowledge or capacity to carry out the checks required.
Which section regarding grant are you referring to?
Seems the be so dependant on your FEO. I was granted a 308 and 45-70 on my first FAC for deer and AOLQ, open ticket to boot. Granted, my FEO is a hunter himself so he was well educated on the subject.
When I was living in Ireland it wasn't really possible to get anything bigger than a 308. The superintendent made the call as to what you could and couldn't have and the only recourse was the courts. If he wasn't interested in firearms you were out of luck. I'd hate to see it become like that here.
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